Some more information about this Verset by Boëllmann?

[Sarah Weizhen]

So I came across this little Verset by Boëllmann on my text book. I have been trying to find out more about this piece but so far I haven't find anything about it yet, I have no idea what is it's Op number, what does it connect with, and what's the background of it.

It's a very simple piece, a lot of beginner students learn this piece in order to play the pedals for the first time.

I am at a bit more intermediate level right now, however, after I hear somebody play it with full of emotions and in a steady slow tempo, I fall in love with this "sweet sad" little verset immediately.

I recorded myself playing it, with flute solo on the swell and soft strings on great and coupled to the pedal, it sounds pretty nice to me (attached video here).

https://youtu.be/NbvdSRkXVns

But there is one problem with this.
It is Allegretto, which means the tempo should be around 1 quarter= 100, and the suggested speed here is 96, twice as fast as what I did!
I think I am around 1 quarter = 50 here, which I think is a good speed, maybe 60 could work too, but I really think 96 or 100 would make it way too fast and lost all the emotions and the "sweet sad" atmosphere in it.

I found some videos on YouTube that is played at the "correct tempo", I don't necessarily feel they are as good as if been played at a slower speed with a little bit more rubato. You can see example here:

https://youtu.be/fLEkfE5MNf0

This is actually not the only Verset by Boëllmann that I think the tempo should keep slow than usual Allegretto. There is another Verset in this book as well, that I feel 1=96 is a little bit too fast, but I haven't done a good recording of me playing it in my "perfect way" yet so I won't say too much about it.

So could someone tell me a little bit more about Boëllmann's verset, and how do you think about this piece, what tempo do you think is the best?

Thank you so much!!

[andijah]

It is from the Heures mystiques.
Here's a pdf where the piece is listed as op. 30 no. 2 :-)
http://ks4.imslp.net/files/imglnks/u...p.30_no2_4.pdf

Personally, I wouldn't play it too slow. Just because it's in c minor, it's not a "sad" piece. And "sad" isn't automatically "slow". My tempo is about 96 for the quarters.

[Sarah Weizhen]

Thank you so much. It is very helpful. However I would really want to hear somebody play it at the speed of 96 and still make it musical and expressive. I know it doesn't have to be sad, it's just my personal idea. But as long as it sounds beautiful then I will buy it :-D

[tbeck]

Are the bass notes to be played in the pedal? I thought, perhaps mistakenly, that these pieces were written for harmonium.

[myorgan]

Don't forget, harmoniums often have 2 manuals and pedals.

Michael

[Dutchy]

As far as I know, the French harmoniums in Boellmanns time were ALWAYS one manual, no pedals. There were, however, very expressive because with the air inflow one could have considerable influence on the souns AND the volume.
The Heures Mystiques of Boëllmann are mostly meant to play on one manual sometimes with a manual split halfway, so a cantus firmus was possible.

BTW, as andijah said, of course they also could be played on organ, presumably a typical Cavaille-coll choir organ with two Manuals and Pedal.

[myorgan]

Just searching one name (Alexandre Pére et Fils), I found several 2-manual harmoniums under that name. However, there weren't any with pedals. The manufacture date was mid-1860s.

Michael

[regeron]

... I fall in love with this "sweet sad" little verset immediately. ..

I'm curious to know where you get the idea of it being "sweet sad". The markings on the page are:
- Allegretto - which means "light and cheerful, but not as much as Allegro."
- dolce espressivo - which means "sweet and expressive."

Another take on "Allegretto" suggests that "Allegro" has to do with "joy" and that "Allegretto" implies a "moderated joy."

I'm going to offer some kind criticism. It is intended to give a different perspective - we can talk about our differences of opinion. Feel free to agree or disagree.
I did listen to both recordings that you included. Yours is way too slow for me; it sounds more like an Adagio or Largo. I'm not able to take the music to a keyboard, but when I played it in my head, I found that I was wanting to take it about 1 quarter = 120.

One difference between what I hear in my head and what I hear in the two recordings you provide is that in the recordings, the quarter notes all tend to sound like downbeats. In my head, I hear the first quarter note of each measure as a downbeat and the other two as lighter notes. To say this in different words, in the recordings I almost hear 12 downbeats in the first phrase - in my head I hear 4 downbeats. To make this happen, if a note is not a downbeat, I play it as a pickup to the next downbeat. (A pickup can be a single note or a group of notes.) In the recordings, it sounds as if the organist is sitting on each note, never letting the music move forward.

Here's another explanation that I use with my students:
We are taught to count the beats in a measure. Our first response to this piece would be to count "1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 1 2 3 ..." That\s fine for starting out and getting the notes learned, but it doesn't take us far enough.
If you look at the lengths of the various phrases and measure them in downbeats, the first two phrases each have 4 downbeats, then next two phrases each have 2 downbeats, then there is another 4-downbeat phrase and finally an extended version of a 4-downbeat phrase (extended to 6 downbeats.) The piece begins with 2 downbeats worth of introduction.
Instead of counting the first phrase, which starts on an upbeat, as "3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2 3 | 1 2," I'd count it as "a | 1 & a | 2 & a | 3 & a | 4 &." I'd start over again for each new phrase.
To make the counting easier, I would treat the introduction as the end of a previous 4-measure phrase, counting it as "1 & a | 2 &" with the first phrase following.
It's interesting to note that in this piece, if you were to play this piece twice through, the last, 6-downbeat phrase would combine with the 2-downbeat introduction to become 8 downbeats, the equivalent of two 4-downbeat phrases.
Counting like this is often helpful in giving the music more direction and preventing a plodding, heavy sound, no matter what tempo you use.

Both recordings are nicely played, but I don't think they capture the mood as indicated by the word indicators in the music.

I do need to take into account that this is probably from an organ method, so it is being played by students who are learning new skills. In my case, I would have been working on that piece about 30 years ago, so I'm approaching it from the perspective of a more experienced performer.

These ideas can be hard to put into words. If it doesn't make sense, say so and I'll try to explain it better.

[Sarah Weizhen]

Thank you so much for your comments. It does makes me seeing this piece from a different perspective.
So how did I get the idea that this piece is sad? Here is the full story:

I heard my instructor play it once. But he was just trying to tell me it's very easy to play, I could almost play it by simply sight reading. He was playing it at the recommended speed which is about 100, and I was NOT very impressed by this piece. Then I just forget about this piece, never think about it again.

Until one day I happened to come across this guy playing it on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/HxJpAtVEVq0

You can see he is doing it very very slow, probably in largo, 1 quarter =40 or even less. But with full of emotions.
And, coincidentally, I was in a very bad mood that day, very depressive. After hear his playing, I was like : Wow. I don't know this piece could be sound like that.
And I just couldn't get this piece out of my head that day, because it just suit my mood so much... It's been in repeated in my head for the whole day.

And after that my impression of that piece is settled like that. Sort of like it's hard to change your first impression. It's hard for me to imagine it being joyful and happy... Unless if I hear a version of it been played really really good in a fast speed, that might change my impression.

[Sarah Weizhen]

It's interesting that you mentioned how exactly we should count the beats on this. It's a little bit complicated, I need to read through it a few more times and try it again

[andijah]

I struggle a bit with the idea of "being full of emotions" = played soft and slowly. The slower the playing, the harder it can be to keep the musical flow and energy levels going.

I find Tyler's version way too slow. Your version is registered nicely, but to me it sounds more like a sound carpet than a piece played with a clear intention. Considering that Boellmann is usually rather precise in his descriptions of character and tempo of the music, I doubt that he would've wanted half tempo for this piece. But although I've played a lot of his works, I'm not an expert and only make a more or less educated guess.

[Sarah Weizhen]

I agree . This is definitely not Boëllmann's intention to be that slow.
I say Tyler play it with emotion not really mean that he is doing a perfect job, maybe just because his playing is a little bit better than some of other videos on YouTube that was played with NO emotions at all, like a computer playing all the notes, I always fascinated by how could anybody sit so perfectly still on the bench and play it just note by note but nothing else.

[myorgan]

Sarah,

The trick is to perform the piece with a bit of rubato. I agree with the others about the piece being too slow. That said, however, your registration choice was great! (no pun intended).

In Böellmann's music, there is some liberty for shaping the phrase. Think of your hand moving through a vat of molasses or honey. It takes great effort to move it and there is resistance against the hand. As you stop moving the hand through the vat, there is less resistance as the hand slows.

When shaping a phrase, there is a change in intensity that is conveyed through the music. I hope I haven't confused you with my explanation. If so, I'm sorry.

Michael

[Sarah Weizhen]

That's very interesting how you compare rubato to moving hands in honey. Great way to think about it.

[FatCat]

So I came across this little Verset by Boëllmann on my text book

New member here! Greetings to all and sorry for bumping up this thread with a rather OT question. :)

What's the title of that book? I'm beginning my organ studies (I come from Piano) and it seems a nice text to acquire.

[Sarah Weizhen]

The book is called
The Organists' Manual: Technical Studies & Selected Compositions for the Organ
1st Edition Edition, written by Roger E. Davis. ISBN-13: 978-0393954616, ISBN-10: 9780393954616.

It is a really good text book for organ beginners who has a little bit foundation on piano but want to learn the organ seriously. All the compositions and exercises in the book are short but really really awesome, a lot of famous pieces in here, but without being twisted or over edited, only with some registration and fingering suggestions for beginners to have some ideas.

[FatCat]

Thank you, Sarah! I'm looking at it on Scribd and it seems an amazingly rich method... and a bit expensive one :D

[myorgan]

FatCat,

Most of the reputable organ methods are quite expensive. Generally, they're used as college textbooks for those taking organ lessons. Private teachers sometimes use them, but I don't-the cost is too prohibitive.

Michael