Guilmant, Felix Alexandre

[nullogik]

I first fell in love with Guilmant's music when I purchased on of Mme Alain's Great Toccata CDs and on it was "Sonata No.1in D Minor, Op42 - Finale" - what a piece! </P>


I'm only about 1/2 way through it and its taken me months to get there (partly due to a lack of time), but it sounds great and unlike any other piece I've heard. The first time I heard it blew me over...</P>


You can hear a snippet of this on Amazon:</P>


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Toccat...755&amp;sr=8-1</P>


Then the other day I was fortunate enough to be given another CD (by Pro organo) featuring Charles Callahan playing exclusively Guilmant pieces and instantly I was drawn to "<FONT face=Verdana>Grand Choeur Triomphal Op. 47/2" and "March on a Theme by Handel, Op. 15". I've placed an order with Sheetmusicplus, and can't wait to start learning it - but I gather they're not the easiest pieces on the world. Still to achieve that kind of sound Guilmant creates, its to be expected.</FONT></P>


<FONT face=Verdana>For me Guilmant, has to be my most favourite organ composer, even beyond Bach (shock, horror!). </FONT></P>


<FONT face=Verdana>Any opinions on Guilmant? What about these specific pieces? Another other Guilmant pieces I should consider?</FONT>
</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Interesting that you mentioned some of my favorite Guilmant pieces. [:)]</P>


I almost always play the Grand Chœur Triomphal,March on a Theme by Handel or the Paraphrase from Judas Maccabaeus on Palm Sunday.</P>


I highly recommend the Fuga "alla Handel," Op 49 no. 6 - it is not too difficult to play. This piece is special to me, as I played it at Guilmant's church. The Final from "Sonata No.1" is also quite special to me as itconcluded my very first solo organ recital. Irecorded the Final at Chartres - someday I might try to post it (it is on a DAT tape, and I'm a bit challenged with that). [:S]</P>


Guilmant Garnishes is an excellent CD. You might also consider Ian Tracey at Liverpool- this is an orchestral/organ version of the "Sonata No.1" - it is a sonic blockbuster!</P>


I also highly recommend this excellent series of CDs (if you can still find them): Guilmant - Ausgewählte Orgelwerke on Motette</P>
<P mce_keep="true">Last but not least - there is a truly wonderful CD of Guilmant Noëlsby Agnes Armstrong at the Kallio Church in Helsinki. The organ is a recent Cavaillé-Coll style organ which sounds superb. I love listening to this disk any time of the year.</P>
<P mce_keep="true">I discussed a few of these things in a recent post.</P>

[Guest]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



I whole-heartedly share you enthusiasm for Guilmant's music for organ.</P>


Some collections by Guilmant which are well worth exploring include:</P>


'The Practical Organist' - available from Dover publishing as has a wide variety of different pieces.There aresome good marches in this one and the 'Scherzo Symphonique' is definitely worth checking out if you like the louder works. This one is on you tube played by Clive Driskill-Smith: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSbD1bwqcmU</P>


'Pieces in Different Styles' - I am yet to find a complete edition of this (it was originally published in 18 installments!!) but www.kalmus.com have most of them and I think they intend to publish the rest if they haven't already. Contains exactly what the title says - lot of wonderfully varied pieces including the March on a Theme by Handel. Try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap_2j7qrSeQ</P>


'Eighteen New Pieces' - another collection oflovely andvaried works.</P>


Many of the quieter pieces Ihave foundinvaluable forpre-serviceor communion voluntaries, and much of it isn't incredibly difficult either. I'll leave you with a website that anyone with a passion for Guilmant should check out - lots of very interesting information: http://www.guilmant.nl/</P>


Enjoy!</P>


Regards,</P>


Monsieur Orgue</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[nullogik]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Thanks Soubasse and Monsieur Orgue for those suggestions - they'll be going on my shopping list (particularly that Ian Tracey CD).</p>

Interesting to read that there are still a lot of Guilmant's compositions that have never been published. It makes you wonder what other gems there might be lurking on those shelves.</p>

Soubasse, how long did it take you to learn Finale from Sonate No.1? I've been going at it on and off for the past year and its still causing problems. </p>

</p>

[tumult_in_the_praetorium]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre

I'm a big Guilmant fan - and particularly love the Final from the First Sonata.

I too play the March upon a Theme of Handel, but here are a few other gems from his oeuvre that I particularly enjoy as well:

- Grand Choeur in D major (from Book 4 of Various Pieces -the famous one in 3/4 time)
- Caprice in B flat (Book 6 - lots of fun jumping between manuals)
- Sonata No.3 (this is one of those flashy pieces which is much easier to play than it sounds)
- Cantilene-Pastorale in B minor (from Book 1)
- Andante con Moto in E major (?)

[soubasse32]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



[quote user="nullogik"]Soubasse, how long did it take you to learn Finale from Sonate No.1? I've been going at it on and off for the past year and its still causing problems.[/quote]</P>


I'm a fairly quick study, somy situation may not apply exactly... I guess the thing I had most difficulty with were the pedal chords on the last page. But those do come more easily after a while. I also had some difficulty deciding how exactly touse theTrompette-en-chamade, as the writing complicates the use of such a stop (if I recall correctly).</P>


Could you tell us what is giving you troubles, specifically?</P>

[nullogik]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



I'm having trouble articulating the piece. </P>


By that I mean, when I play it, it sounds like one big scrabble and doesn't sound relaxed enough. Also I'm finding it hard to let the music breathe. Theres so many notes moving so quickly, that I can't find "space" in the music to let the phrases "breathe".</P>


With regards to the final section how do you pedal three notes at once? I can guess that the two most adjacent notes of the pedal chords must be played one with the heel and and the other with the toe of the same foot - but how do you get you're in to position quick enough?</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Sorry to be late in responding - I do want torespond to your questions!</P>


[quote user="nullogik"]I'm having trouble articulating the piece. [/quote]</P>
<UL>
<LI>Practice slowly, preferably at the piano.</LI>
<LI>Lift the fingers a bit higher than you would otherwise (slow practice only), but keep your wrists low.</LI>
<LI>As you go faster, try practicing ultra-staccato - it should feel as if you are pulling each finger away from the key.</LI>[/list]


Try different combinations of accents. For each group of four sixteenth notes (semi-quavers) try accenting in these patterns:</P>

1. <LI>Xooo</LI>
   <LI>oXoo</LI>
   <LI>ooXo</LI>
   <LI>oooX</LI>
   <LI>XoXo</LI>
   <LI>oXoX</LI>

I might play one page at a time; play the page using pattern #1, then repeat the page using pattern #2, etc.</P>


[quote user="nullogik"]By that I mean, when I play it, it sounds like one big scrabble and doesn't sound relaxed enough. Also I'm finding it hard to let the music breathe. Theres so many notes moving so quickly, that I can't find "space" in the music to let the phrases "breathe".[/quote]</P>
<UL>
<LI>Practice with a metronome.</LI>
<LI>Incrementally increase the speed at each repetition until you are playing faster than you would perform the piece. If you feel comfortable at an extra-fast tempo, then playing at a normal speed will feel effortless and relaxed.</LI>
<LI>To "breathe" try feeling the pulse on the quarter notes (crotchets) or on the half notes (minims) rather than on the eighth notes (quavers). The largerthe pulse, the bigger the picture - you will find you have more room to "breathe".</LI>
<LI>Don't think you have to rush through the piece - slower is often better!</LI>[/list]


[quote user="nullogik"]With regards to the final section how do you pedal three notes at once? I can guess that the two most adjacent notes of the pedal chords must be played one with the heel and and the other with the toe of the same foot - but how do you get you're in to position quick enough?[/quote]</P>


Luckily the two-note "chords" are all played with the right foot (if I recall correctly). You might make a little exercise by playing G/B-flat (with the foot turned out) then quickly switch to F#/A (with the foot turned in). Alternate these two chords at an increasing tempo, until your ankle becomes accustomed to pivoting quickly. You might also trywider, trickier intervals such as A/C# then A-flat/C.It takestime to master this but it is not as difficult as you might think.</P>


Please let us know how you are progressing, and if any of my suggestions helped. [:)]</P>

[nullogik]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Thanks for taking the time to post some tips, it very much appreciated soubasse. [:D]
</p>

Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of exams at the moment so I don't have time to try them. But I have saved a copy of the post offline and will work through them when the exams are over...just 2 to go! Hooray!</p>

I'll will however, keep you updated.
</p>

</p>

[Rexmager]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Hallo,</P>


I love the whole Sonata No. 1 by Alex Guilmant, I played it and it was very time demanding to manage that.</P>


Except the solo recordings there are very interesting recordings of the organ (a bit different than organ solo) with the orchestra - much better than organ solo. I had the recording of a German orchestra but a longer time I tried to buy the recording with Simon Preston and an Australian Orchestra, finally I succeed. Except that I love Preston´s recordings of Bach.</P>


Regards</P>


Vladimir</P>

[Rexmager]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Several remarks to the practicing:</P>


- I do not use accents (but I will try them). All the life I use long/short notes - five styles : (1/ _._. 2/ ._._ 3/ _.._ 4/ _... 5/ ..._). This helped me each time to manage difficult parts of the score.</P>


- As for the pedal with Sonata No. 1 by Guilmant, I had the biggest difficulties not with the last page with 3 note chords but with the page before where you have to play quite quickly from the left pedal side to the right discant side. I had to change the sitting desk for a lower one, then it was much better. </P>


- Also the first part of the Sonata is nice but not easy, as well. I am a great fan of Max Reger music (I played e.g. the Introduction and passacaglia in d without opus number, but Sonata No 1 by Guilmant was much more difficult for me.</P>


Regards</P>


Vladimir</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[tumult_in_the_praetorium]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre

[quote user="Rexmager"]


- Also the first part of the Sonata is nice but not easy, as well. I am a great fan of Max Reger music (I played e.g. the Introduction and passacaglia in d without opus number, but Sonata No 1 by Guilmant was much more difficult for me.</P>[/quote]

Yes, the Reger Introduction and Passacaglia is one of those pieces that starts fairly easily and gets progressively harder throughout - like a gradual endurance test, one might say.

It's been ages since I've had a crack at this so I'll probably dig it out this afternoon and have a play through it.

Back to Guilmant....

Some of the shorter works are delightful too. I have some of the various works (Elevations, Prieres, Marches, etc) in one of my Mayhew books - and they are charming but never cheesy.

[Guest]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre

[quote user="soubasse32"]

You might also consider Ian Tracey at Liverpool- this is an orchestral/organ version of the "Sonata No.1" - it is a sonic blockbuster!</p>

[/quote]</p>

There's a cool follow-up CD at Liverpool on Chandos 9785. It has Guilmant's 2nd Symphony in A plus Widor's 3rd Symphony for Organ &amp; Orchestra.</p>

Nice to read this thread on Guilmant. I've certainly enjoyed playing and listening to his works... and some of them aren't at all difficult. </p>

[nullogik]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



I've been practicing my three note pedalling with the exercises Soubasse recommended. </p>

It
seems to be going OK, but I keep smudging notes. For instance if I play
a G with my heel a B with my toe (using the same foot simultaeneously),
I find that the arch of my foot presses down on the A (between the G
&amp; B) so that it too sounds. This then means I end up playing three
notes together. </p>

Playing a say an F-sharp and an A has no problem
because the elevation of the sharpened note angles my foot so the arch
of the shoe doesn't touch the G - the problem is if both notes are
naturals.</p>

Perhaps, should I be playing with shoes with a slightly
higher heel? It would be a shame since the Organmaster shoes work
perfectly for the rest of the piece - now changing shoes mid-piece
would be a feat (pardon the pun) in itself[:P]</p>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</p>

By
the way, check this site out. Lots of free out of copyright stuff is on
here in PDF format. Some of this stuff would probably be out of print
and the best thing is that its free and legal. Theres a few Guilmant
bits and pieces, and also stuff edited by him but not composed by him.

</p>

Thanks to the University of Rochester (USA):</p>

https://urresearch.rochester.edu/han...ch?query=organ</p>

[tumult_in_the_praetorium]

Re: Guilmant, Felix Alexandre



Perhaps I am cheating somewhat, but there are a few pieces where I play without shoes - and this is one of them.

I also do the same with the Dupre Prelude and Fugue in G minor and Evocation (which I recently started learning). As I have rather large feet,playing these works without shoesmakes things much more comfortable for me and gives me better results. </P>