The Eight Little Preludes and Fugues in non-standard use

[Victor Jules]

myorgan reported seeing part of Prelude #1 in C played in a movie -- post #99

https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...in-media/page7

......and I thought to try a new page on the Eight Littles. By "non-standard" I mean times when they pop up in our lives outside of organ solo use in church service, recital and recording. Pleeeeeease don't quibble about the terminology or premise. My 3 examples so far:

Local TV in NYC used to feature numerous low-budget ads for technical and modeling schools etc -- maybe still does. In one I was pleasantly startled to hear a music track consisting of the abovementioned Prelude played by string orchestra. But how would it end on a 30-second increment, I wondered? Somebody had written an alternate finish which tapered the second strain of the piece down just in time :-B

As a kid I was walking through my hometown one night and a school band was performing in the park. The music sounded oddly familiar -- hey, it's the G minor Fugue from the set!

Among my many unusual piano students was a middle-aged Frenchwoman. She brought out an LP of French jazz and pressed it upon me because it had a selection called 'Prelude' by Bach....... the G minor one played extremely slowly on electronic organ with a saxophonist lingering soulfully on every melody :->

Feel free to throw in your thoughts and theories on the set's authorship as well. I think they're J.T. Krebs' work:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_...des_and_Fugues

[Sarah Weizhen]

I don't know if this count, but I used to use the 8 little Preludes and Fugues as the background music when I was working on my art projects. This was in the days before I know they are used in church services, and before I decided to learn the organ. I just listen to them because they make me happy and boost my working efficiency.

[Victor Jules]

Cool. What recording?

[Sarah Weizhen]

I originally downloaded it from YouTube but I can't find it anymore. Right now I think Ulf Norberg's version is pretty cool.
https://youtu.be/fB_b9O8TxWg

[andijah]

Here's another thread on the pieces: https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...des-and-fugues

[myorgan]

Andrea,

Thank you for sharing that thread. Unfortunately, repeat threads on certain topics seem to repeat about every year or so with the advent of new members-even though the other thread isn't closed. Oh, well. We can re-hash them again.

Michael

[Victor Jules]

This one is specifically about their unusual appearances in public -- a unique angle I'm sure.

[andijah]

Yes, Victor, I know, but you also asked the question who might be the composer and this is discussed regularly ;-)

[Victor Jules]

New people come aboard, mebbe some will see this page where they wouldn't see those, etc.

[JeffW]

I often get annoyed when Bach/organ music are "played" by villains within scenes in TV/movies such as Hannibal Lecter (he is a villain) conducting a cassette recorder playing the "Goldberg Variations" in Silence of the Lambs or Brad Pitt's character playing "Toccata and Fugue in d" in Tree of Life.

But the all time worst in the use of Bach's "Eight Little Preludes" is the 1978 bland and less-than B movie Dawn of the Dead. I had already studied the Prelude and Fugue in F (BWV 556) when I went to see the movie (a friend wanted me to go...not my choice), and I was appalled hearing both the Prelude AND the Fugue in different places in the movie.

I quickly found the following YouTube scene where the Fugue starts at 1:14 https://youtu.be/dyucU5rtIu8?t=73

I don't think I can stomach searching for a clip in the movie where the Prelude is (I think it is in a scene where a biker is excited by something and stops to check his blood pressure to confirm how excited he is--the machine locks his arm and zombies rip him apart (something like that...it was 42 years ago:\))

I'm sure/pray others will have even more off-kilter examples of "non-standard use" of the Lil' 8.

[myorgan]

Comments not related to the original topic have been moved to the Grease Pit here:https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...lassical-music. Please keep future replies and comments in this thread on topic.

Michael-Moderator

[Victor Jules]

Please return or duplicate my reply to JeffW here. It's entirely germane.

[Admin]

Forum moderators are entrusted to make decisions affecting the content of this site and have complete authority to do so without seeking my approval. In the over sixteen years this Forum has existed, I have NEVER found it necessary to overrule, or even disagree with, a moderator's decision.

Moving portions of this thread to the Grease Pit was totally correct and in keeping with Forum policy.

I will add a copy JeffW's post, with an explanation and back reference, to the newly created Grease Pit thread for context.

[andyg]

Please return or duplicate my reply to JeffW here. It's entirely germane.

No. The comments were moved correctly and appropriately, so they will remain there.

Andy G - Moderator

[Victor Jules]

Simply not true of mine to Jeff. I answered his question and put it in context.

[Admin]

It would be wise for members to review [25] of the Forum Terms & Rules
https://organforum.com/forums/help#c...ew/general_tos

[Leisesturm]

You know Victor, I think you kind of went out on a limb with this one. I've stayed out of it this long because I really had nothing to add. There is tons more adaptation of other works by Bach or even attributed to Bach than the 8LP&F. It was destined to be a very short thread. Happens. So I stopped following it. The recent flare up of emotions in it are unfortunate. Very unfortunate. I had a look at the split off discussion in the Grease Pit. Again, lamentable.

I recognize that treatment of the FinFM in that movie scene. Somewhere I have a vinyl recording some German guy did of Bach pieces over drums and bass. Not everything Bach wrote was Sacred. Much of it was quite secular but in the 17th Century I daresay a greater sense of ... spirituality surrounded most activity. So much was unknown. Advanced physics, the Fossil Record, Human and Animal Biology and Genetics. Behavioral scientists believe that Bach's IQ was 165. WE know he was a musical genius, but behavioral scientists know that he could not have only been a genius in music. Bach was a genius. Period. In 2020 Bach would have been an Agnostic. Also Handel. Moreso Handel.

The secularization of Hollywood film scores and a wide swath of art, entertainment and music has no religious agenda. It isn't "Christ hating", it simply isn't Christ affirming. I find much contemporary classical music unlistenable. In the early 2000's I discovered film scores as a place where classically trained composers were continuing a tradition of melodic, rythmically interesting and often sublime classical music as the backdrop to both Hollywood blockbusters and Indie releases alike. I haven't looked back.

[Victor Jules]

The page is only 3 weeks old and two people have already contributed juicy examples, Leisesturm. So much for the naysaying :-B

[Dutchy]

Not everything Bach wrote was Sacred. Much of it was quite secular but in the 17th Century I daresay a greater sense of ... spirituality surrounded most activity. So much was unknown. Advanced physics, the Fossil Record, Human and Animal Biology and Genetics. Behavioral scientists believe that Bach's IQ was 165. WE know he was a musical genius, but behavioral scientists know that he could not have only been a genius in music. Bach was a genius. Period. In 2020 Bach would have been an Agnostic. Also Handel. Moreso Handel.

Hmmm. I do not want an endless discussion on this topic (not here, because it's also off-topic), but from the quote it seems to follow:

"if you are intelligent anno 2020, then you are agnostic".

From here it follows:

"if you are not agnostic, you cannot be intelligent" (logical reasoning: modus Tollens).

And from this an inevitable conclusion must follow:

"if you are a believer, you cannot be intelligent".

This is a simple case of logical reasoning. Do you really mean that? If so, that seems to me an unfounded generalization and an insult to me as a believer.
If you doesnt mean this, please explain what you are really saying here. Thanks in advance.

[Dutchy]

Dear Admin, The discussion is not about religion, but about a statement by a forum member. No fear for contentious religious discussions, I only want to know from the poster himself if 'm right or not and some explanations about his utterances.

You are right that his talk is about 'genius', not 'intelligence'. But replace my 'intelligent' with 'genius' and the same reasoning is valid.

Additional explanation:
- It is known Bach was a believer.
- Leisesturm says: Bach was a Genius & In 2020 Bach would have been an agnostic.

From here it must follow that in the 18th century a genius could be a believer, but in the 21th century a genius would be an agnostic. From here I made some logical conclusions. I cannot see how my conclusions are wrong.

Of course Leisesturm did not say it literally - but the logical consequences of his utterance are inevitable. And because I'm not sure if he really did mean this, I asked him for explanation.

So please let us wait for his reaction. If it is indeed, what you thinks, an utterance ONLY about Bach (and Handel) it is indeed an opinion, and in that case a very speculative one too. Not supported by any evidence. But I'm sure Leisesturm can speak for himself what he really wanted to say.

[Admin]

My point was simply that using logical deduction to prove an argument when the argument is in itself a logical fallacy is ... illogical. I also said the statement in question was illogical, so I understand your desire for clarification and have no objection to that; however, as you yourself stated, further discussion of this issue is off topic and as such, is subject to relocation. As to whether this will lead to a discussion of religion, I offer post #13 for your consideration.

[Dutchy]

Dear Admin, I am glad you understand my desire for clarification.
As far as logic is concerned, we differ slightly from insight, but that is not a problem - the sharing of insights is valuable. Won't battle for it.
And again, I had no intention to begin a discussion on religion.

[Victor Jules]

Do we all agree that Bach was a genius and meant his religious utterances -- e.g. "The aim and final end of all music should be none other than the glory of God and the refreshment of the soul. If heed is not paid to this, it is not true music but a diabolical bawling and twanging"? That might settle it all, despite all the scoffing at the idea by David Randolph &c.