How Do You Use 16' or 32' Manual Stops in Classical Music?

[myorgan]

From time to time when perusing stoplists for various classical organs, I find 16' and even 32' stops listed in the manuals. Outside theatre music, I've personally found little to no use for such stops. Occasionally, I'll add a 16' Quintaten to add weight to a registration, but only if the music is written on the high end of the treble staff or above. At that point, I find most Mixtures and 1' stops sound screechy. Any lower, and I find the sound growly and useless. I can't imagine what a 32' stop would do, as appears on some organs.

I only have two pieces I've found so far that require 16' stops: Cortégè et Litanie (Dupre), and Adagio for Strings (Barber). However, those pieces are written such that the stops are not used until both hands are at the top of, or above the treble staff. IIRC, both of those registrations call for 16' Strings, and not the 16' stops I have on the organ (usually a 16' Quintaden or 16' Lieblich Gedeckt). I might use a 16' on part of Boëllmann's Suite Gothique (either the 1^st or last movements) or similar music, but his registration already calls for that plus 16', 8', and 4' Reed Chorus (Anches) in those movements.

Have you registration experts ever found a suitable use for such stops, or are they as useless for you as for me? Perhaps I'm not playing the "right" literature to require 16' or 32' stops?

Michael

[jbird604]

Not a registration expert by any means, but I have changed my outlook on 16' manual stops in recent years. I used to detest them, back when I played on Conn organs a lot, as they were usually Bourdons and they just made everything revoltingly muddy.

Then I picked up a little book somewhere -- "Organ Design and Appraisal" by James Blaine Jamison (H.W. Gray, 1959). Who but the nerdiest organ nerd would read a book like that? And I've read it cover to cover a half dozen times! Anyway, in the book, Jamison takes you through what he believes is the "ideal" church organ, stop by stop, feature by feature. Discussing every option and every variation and philosophy on each one, how it relates historically, and how each stop adds to the ensemble and makes the organ suitable for playing in church. He changed my outlook on the 16' manual stop. Of course his book is all about real pipe organs, but many of the same considerations apply to a digital.

He strongly believes that the Great division of a church organ is incomplete without a suitable Manual Double stop. He recommends a Violone or Contra-Geigen, as these are harmonically rich string tones, softer than diapasons or flutes, and without profound bass. Thus they complement and fill in the harmonics of the 8/4/2 flue chorus without muddiness.

Most of the organs I've played, if they had a 16' stop at all in the great, had a 16' Bourdon, which is obviously useless as a double for the principal chorus. Or maybe now and then you see a 16' reed, a very loud one, in the great, but that too is useless because it is anything but subtle.

Fortunately, the MDS-45 at church has a soft 16' Gemshorn on the great, and the story gets better. It is contained in a stop group with only three other stops -- Quinte, Krummhorn, and half the Flute Celeste -- and those other stops don't need much bass either. So I was able to voice it so that my Gemshorn has only enough bass content to let you know it's there, but so little no one would ever accuse it of muddying up the ensemble. It's perfect for a double!

So yes, I use it sparingly, but I love to pull it on for the most celebrative parts of the service, such as the singing of the Doxology and/or the final stanza of the final hymn. It's subtle to be sure, but it gives that great flue ensemble a distinctive "growl" that I have grown to love so much. It makes it sound less electronic, to my ears. Underneath principals and flutes from 8' through mixture this 16' Gemshorn is pretty retiring, but it is just what I need in that ensemble to send a little tingle down my spine!

[myorgan]

...but it is just what I need in that ensemble to send a little tingle down my spine!

We all know how you love a good "tingle," John! Oh, I wish it were so easy for me! Maybe it's time for a little re-voicing of the Great.;-)

Michael

[michaelhoddy]

Always loved the Jamison book. I remember stumbling upon it in my college library. Took it out and renewed it so many times. The last time someone had checked it out was 20 years prior! So definitely a nerdy book, but a fun read and a well-written one. Many of his assertions hold good weight for church organ design. Except perhaps for that Great 4' Quintaten!

I've had the chance to play a few Austins he influenced the design of during his stint with the company in the years hence.

[jbird604]

Nice to know I'm not the only Jamison nerd on the forum! One thing about the book that surprises me is that the recommendations he made are generally still valid today, even though tastes and trends in organ building have come and gone since the 1950's. His concept for a general-purpose church organ is hard to improve upon.

[regeron]

Here are some of the possibilities for using a 16' on the manuals.

First, if the organ is large enough, it's nice to have 16' Principal, Flute AND String. On one instrument that I know, there are already the first two on Great and Swell respectively and there are plans to add a 16' String to the Choir. The organ is fortunate to have an 8' Principal on all three manuals, with an additional, louder Diapason on the Great. The three 16's allow for all 3 manuals to be registered with similar colors, but different strengths.

In some cases, the 16' is required to balance one or more mixtures. I know a couple organs where I go to teach their resident organists. When we talk about the screech-level of the Great Mixture, if they express any reluctance to use it due to its hurting their ears or not fitting in, I get them to do a test. Play something using the Principal Chorus 8.4.2 2/3.2.IV, with and without the 16. On these organs, which are modest but still quite well designed, adding the 16' makes the Mixtures much more accessible. My students are quite surprised that the 16' has such an effect. On one organ, the Great 16' is a Principal, on another, it's a Bourdon. In each case, the organ was well-voiced, so the 16' is appropriate to the mixture.

Too many people think the 16' has to boom. It doesn't. In a lot of cases, it's only necessary to add a touch of sub-unison pitch.

For accompanying congregational singing, we need to remember that the 8' pitches are simply doubling what the congregational voices are singing, so can be hard to hear, depending on the stop choices. Adding a 4' makes the registration easier to hear and sing with (with regards to both intonation and rhythm.) Adding a 16' stop adds gravity and has the added benefit of reinforcing the melody at the same pitch that the men of the congregation would sing.

Use of 32' stop. My experience here is limited. One organ had a 32' Resultant (taken from the 16' Bourdon: 16' Bourdon + 10 2/3' for the first octave; 16' alone, sounding an octave lower for all other notes.) Because of its gentleness, it could be drawn with the Swell strings - Viola da Gamba + Voix Celeste with the box closed. A truly ethereal effect. Yet, the 32' pitch was strong enough that if you added it to Full Organ, you knew it was there. Again, it doesn't need to boom to be heard.

[myorgan]

I guess that's the key-the manual 32' or 16' should not be voiced loudly, but as a "presence" rather than a prominent part of the sound. The key is voicing.

Thank you for the thoughtful responses.

Michael

[toodles]

I like a 16 ft solo line (putting the melody in the tenor range) on pieces with solo and accompaniment arrangement. I find the clarinet (or other clarinet-tribe voice) very nice in this range. A 16 ft flute is sometimes useful to bolster the fundamental in such an arrangement.

As to 1 ft stops, one of my favorite uses is 8ft flute plus 1' flute/principal. Nice for a very light contrapuntal line.

[myorgan]

Toodles,

Great stops to use in theatre music, however, in classical music, these are nice specialty registrations (to catch people's attention). I used to use 16', 8', and 2' (maybe 1' instead) Flutes on my Lowrey with the Leslie, but I've not found similar use for it much in classical music.

Michael

[regeron]

Sometimes, if I'm accompanying a gospel hymn that everyone loves to belt out, I'll pull all the flutes on all manuals, (but especially on the Swell and Choir - enclosed divisions), then sub- and super-couple everything to the Great. All tremulants on, right foot on both Swell and Choir swell shoes, and away we go. If the Great flutes are too loud, I may cut them, otherwise they cancel out any work I do with the swell shades.

I also find that adding a flute 2 2/3 gives a hint of Hammond sound. This works because I generally find the Hammond to be a flute-tone organ, with the flutes available at the following pitch levels, [16, 5 1/3,] 8, 4, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5, 1 1/3, 1 1/7, 1.

toodles - You're right: using a 16' as a solo, or just playing the melody in the tenor range is a gorgeous effect.

[regeron]

It's helpful to think of a registration where some stops are the "core" and others are the "enhancers." Usually, the core is an 8' stop alone, or two or more stops that function together, like a Principal chorus or a Cornet. Enhancers can add color, richness, clarity, depth, warmth, brilliance, power, or any number of other qualities. toodles has given a couple good examples in the post above.

In light of that, it's also nice when you don't have to rely on one enhancer to do the work of several, though that can be possible.

There are other ways to look at registration, especially since we're talking about 16's, but I find this to be a helpful way for my own registrations.

That's also why, when it comes to 32's, some people make the mistake of assuming that the 32' should add depth AND volume. That may be the case on some organs, but on other organs, it may be better to use the 32' to add depth and then use other 16's and 8's to add volume.

[regeron]

As to 1 ft stops, one of my favorite uses is 8ft flute plus 1' flute/principal. Nice for a very light contrapuntal line.

Some people refer to this as a 'gap' registration.

Normally, you would go up the stops one octave at a time, which would give you 8.4.2.1. By leaving out any of the middle stops, 4 or 2 or 4 AND 2, you get a colorful registration. In this type of registration, the 8 is usually a flute, because it lacks any natural harmonics that could otherwise fill in the gap. It's also nice to start with the 8 and add any combination of mutations, 2 2/3, 1 3/5 and/or 1 1/3.

[regeron]

Ah, but it's a Cornet with gaps, so it can take on a whole other sound.

If you start with the 8' and add all 4 stops - 4, 2 2/3, 2, and 1 3/5 - you get a complete Cornet.
If you start with the 8' and add any 3 of those 4 stops, the sound will still be very much like a Cornet.
If you start with the 8' but only add 1 or 2 of those 4 stops, the sound takes on a different solo quality.

[tbeck]

I love an 8' flute with a nasard for solos.

[myorgan]

It's funny you should call it ...a cornet with gaps, Regeron. I used to use that setting on the Allen TC-3S to create a Clarinet sound on the Swell where it was more useful.

Michael

[toodles]

I have a Prelude on Amazing Grace where the 16' reed solo works beautifully. It may be a "modern" arrangement, but it still counts as classical, I think. It certainly is not a theatre organ arrangement.

Any place where a Cornet is used for a solo is worth trying with a 16 solo reed with or without flue enhancement. Cornets sound best to my ears in the tenor range.

Perhaps you are just dead set against 16 ft stops. If so, then you won't ever find a use for them. But you'll be missing some nice opportunities.

[regeron]

One of my first important organ teachers always told us to be on the lookout for the versatility of stops, especially on small organs - things like playing a solo on a 4' stop an octave lower, or a 16' stop an octave higher to give us more color options than just relying on the 8' stops that were present.

It should be said, too, that there appear to be different historic expectations between solo reed and solo flue registrations.

For example, if there is a florid, decorated melody with lots of 16th notes, there is a tendency to play that on a flue registration, like the Cornet or Sesquialtera. This is because not all reeds could be relied on to speak quickly enough. There is also a sparkle and clarity of tone that the Cornet and Sequialtera have and the reed may not.

In contrast, the solo reeds would tend to be used on long note melodies, where the cantus firmus (tune) is in half and quarter notes.

[myorgan]

Perhaps you are just dead set against 16 ft stops. If so, then you won't ever find a use for them. But you'll be missing some nice opportunities.

I'm not dead set against them, but I AM DEAD SET against unusable 16' stops in the manuals. What was mentioned earlier about proper voicing of the stops strikes the intent of the OP exactly.

So we've addressed solo registrations and gap registrations. Any other uses? Keep in mind, we're talking about Classical music here. I think we all know how valuable 16' stops are in theatre registrations.

Michael

[regeron]

The 16' stops can add gravity to a chorus registration, whether it's a flute, principal, string, or reed chorus. Its success depends on the voicing and the final registration's appropriateness to the repertoire.

And, as I mentioned above, it is often required to balance a bright mixture - a situation similar to adding gravity to a chorus, but not necessarily identical.

[Admin]

Full organ chords played above high C, like in the final 25 bars or so of the Franck e minor chorale, definitely benefit from 16' stops in the registration. Without the 16's they become shrill and weak. Franck's Cavaillé-Coll organ at St. Clotilde had16' Montre and Bourdon in the Grand-orgue and a 16' Bourdon in the Positif.

[voet]

For those who have access to Hauptwerk, I suggest you look at the main organ of the Laurenskerk in Rotterdam built by Marcussen to experiment using 16' manual stops. The Principal chorus of the Hoofdwerk is based on 16' pitch. As such it has unison pitches of 16, 8, 4 and 2 and a 5 1/3' Quinte, 3-4 rank Rauschquinte, 8-10 rank Mixutur and 6-8 rank Scharf.

It is really necessary to understand the physics behind this to get the most from the organ. The 5 1/3' Quinte is part of the 16' harmonic series. It is analogous to the 2 2/3' Quinte in the 8' Principal chorus of the Rugwerk. It is possible to register an 8' Principal chorus on the Hoofdwerk, but it should not include the 5 1/3' Quinte or Rauschquinte because they include pitches in the 16' harmonic series.

The 16' plenum on this instrument is rich and elegant. I like to use it for the beginning of Bach's Fantasia in G minor BWV 542. Here is a recording that showcases it beautifully:

[myorgan]

Bill,

Excellent example! However, for me it is a bit muddy and loses clarity in the lower register of the opening bars before the registration is reduced.

Michael

[Piperdane]

Full organ chords played above high C, like in the final 25 bars or so of the Franck e minor chorale, definitely benefit from 16' stops in the registration. Without the 16's they become shrill and weak. Franck's Cavaillé-Coll organ at St. Clotilde had16' Montre and Bourdon in the Grand-orgue and a 16' Bourdon in the Positif.

Same is true for the Mendelssohn Sonata I for organ ... at the beginning it needs those stoic 16' manual flues (which are later withdrawn) to achieve the fullness in sound.

I have two 16' manual stops, one is a Bourdon on the Swell, the other a Gemshorn on the Great. I also have sub/unison off/super couplers on each manual which allows me to create a lush string celeste at 16', 8' and 4' for those rare occasions when needed.

I love the Krummhorn stop I have especially when played in the Tenor octave range.

[toodles]

Reeds at 16-8-4 plus mixtures is a glorious fanfare registration, a few hymns can stand to use if for a stanza.

[toodles]

...I love the Krummhorn stop I have especially when played in the Tenor octave range.

LIke I mentioned before, the voices in stops of the clarinet tribe (clarinet, krummhorn, dulzian, basset horn, etc.) are quite nice in the tenor range. It puts the harmonic structure in the range where the ear can hear it easily.

[myorgan]

Reeds at 16-8-4 plus mixtures is a glorious fanfare registration, a few hymns can stand to use if for a stanza.

Agreed, Toodles. I've used them for the obvious God of Our Fathers, and have added a fanfare between phrases of All Hail the Power (CORONATION) as well. The dotted half notes leave a nice space for the Reed Chorus there.

Michael

[toodles]

When I worked at Thomas organ, one of the organ specialist (sales demontrator) suggested adding a 1/2 ft tibia as a substitute for playing an octave higher, on the premise that no classical organist would ever transpose an octave up (or down)--they had to play it exactly as written. I don't agree--some classical organsts are free thinkers and can handle such complications (tongue firmly planted in cheek)!

[myorgan]

...no classical organist would ever transpose an octave up (or down)--they had to play it exactly as written. I don't agree--some classical organsts are free thinkers and can handle such complications (tongue firmly planted in cheek)!

Good classical organists don't transpose up or down an octave-only theatre organists or those who play at organ can keep from playing the notes as written!;-) (tongue in the other cheek!).

Michael