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What is it with victorian music???

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  • What is it with victorian music???



    Lately I have been hearing people complain about music, both from the choral as well as the organ repertoire, because it is 'too victorian'. Not understanding what this meant I hit the history books to find that this era spans the reign of Queen Victoria (no surprise there then!) which was from 1837 - 1901.</P>


    Perhaps not an organ question initially, but does French music from within this period count as being victorian, since if I am correct it was part of the British Empire? Some of my favourite composers of organ music fall right between these two dates, for example Franck, Guilmantfrom france.Or what about Reger, or Rheinberger. I know many of you here on the forum also admire this music very much, but certainly where I am at this is not always the case.</P>


    What I'd like to know is why some people constantly tell me, with a decidedly negative tone, that this and other stuff sounds too victorian. I'm afraid I've been immersed in and playing this stuff for so long I perhaps don't hear it as others do, but I really don't see anything wrong with it and the comments are getting on my nerves actually.</P>


    Any thoughts on the issue???</P>


    Cheers</P>


    M. O.</P>

  • #2
    Re: What is it with victorian music???



    I think what people might be saying is that the music is too cloying or saccharine.</P>


    I don't think that the major French Romantic works fall into this catagory (although some people feel this way about Franck - hopefully they are in the minority).</P>


    Some people might feel this way about Guilmant, although he was fairly grounded in contrapuntal writing and could compose a good piece.</P>


    Reger &amp; Rheinberger were also well schooled, and there is substance to be found there.</P>


    Dubois... maybe he came a bit closer to crossing the line.</P>


    Most of the organ composers that are familiar to us today, are well-known for a reason; a lot of this music is quite sublime and communicates very well toour modern sensibilities.</P>


    I might look to a work like Stainer's "Crucifixion" -although this is still beloved by many persons, to my ear this sounds quite dated (musically speaking).</P>


    If you are not familiar with this work, try to find a recording. Listen to it, and report back here. [:)]</P>

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: What is it with victorian music???



      Thanks for your comments soubasse, I am indeed glad that you share an appreciation for these writers. So it isn't just me then! [:D] As you have said, it's not like this music lacks any substance, quite the opposite in fact in many cases.</P>


      I don't know the Stainer that well, but from what I remember of it Iunderstand what you are saying. Many of the choral works that we perform at church have a similar vibe to them - a bit drab and the feeling of musically going somewhere but nowhere if you know what I mean by that. </P>


      Well, I shall continue to play the French and German stuff with my usual aplomb! Ithink I knew it already but this music is indeed great for a reason, it's just unfortunate that so many peoplewhere I am don't appreciate that too. I need a new job![|-)]</P>

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: What is it with victorian music???



        does French music from within this period count as being victorian, since if I am correct it was part of the British Empire?
        </P>

        France part of the british empire during the reign of Queen Victoria??????? Time to check your history books I fear.</P>

        Stamping something with the "victorian" adjective is mostly done to say that it is rather pompous, prudish, strict. Or just that it belongs to that timeframe.</P>

        I don't care for the music of that time but I do make the distinction between music of the french, german and english schools of that period. Their music is rather different as well.</P>

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: What is it with victorian music???

          To my ear Victorian music is often very chromatic, particularly in the inner parts. It is also seems to sound rather sentimental. I think composers such as Guilmant, Dubois, and even Franck display some 'Victoran' tendencies but composers such as Stainer and Stegall really define Victorian music.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: What is it with victorian music???



            I love Victorian music, but many people I know complain that its too "slushy" and that goes for Victorian hymns too. </p>

            I love "slushy" music. [:)]
            </p>
            1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
            Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: What is it with victorian music???



              Could you be talking about the era commonly known as the Romantic
              Era (ca. 1825-1875) and/or the Impressionistic Era (ca.
              1875-1900)? Try mixing your musical choices between eras.</p>

              Music
              from those time periods were typically "mushy" in nature. Music
              was supposed to paint an auditory picture of an emotion, scene, or
              something else someone would experience. If you use music only
              from one era, it's no wonder people complain. It's like
              experiencing a single emotion for an extended period of
              time--eventually, you'll need relief or you'll be tuckered out!</p>

              I
              assume (though not stated) you are in a church and not in another
              situation. Perhaps your parishoners are requesting a change in
              diet? My wife and I tired of spaghetti after the first 6 months
              of marriage, even though that's all we could afford. Although I'm
              sure you're not getting what you're worth, maybe they're requesting a
              diet change. Balance in repertoire (and a diet) is a good
              thing. (Grrrr. Now you made me sound like Martha!)</p>

              Michael</p>
              Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
              • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
              • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
              • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: What is it with victorian music???



                Thankfully not, I do like my "slushy" music, but its not the only stuff I play even I would get all "slushed out"! [:)]</p>

                We do this kind of music from time to time (not picked by me but our choirmaster and its mainly choral stuff) but some choir members complain about the style of music whilst others love it - can't please everyone I suppose. </p>

                I just have a liking for this kind of music, like others like Bach etc. but I don't (or hope that I don't) over do it.
                </p>
                1971 Allen Organ TC-3S (#42904) w/sequential capture system.
                Speakers: x1 Model 100 Gyro, x1 Model 105 & x3 Model 108.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: What is it with victorian music???

                  During the drive home from work I tought about this thread (don't ask) and came to the conclusion that the music of that period indeed fit to the adjective "victorian". If you compare it to the works of Dickens you will see the likeliness.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: What is it with victorian music???

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                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: What is it with victorian music???



                      Well, I personally am very fond of "Victorian" music, and all that came before it. I am less fond of music composed after 1900, most especially modern French(which I hear as just a lot of fiery high pitched noise--exciting, but no substance). Just my opinion, of course, and not a particularly well informed one.</P>


                      David</P>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: What is it with victorian music???



                        I have sometimes found that when people tell me that something is "too Victorian," they are referring to Victorian in a disparaging manner. </P>


                        This is unfortunate. I wonder if the people who feel this way realize that we owe much to this era such as:</P>


                        1. The idea and desire to move from one end of a country to another, thus ushering the steam locomotive which in turn brought in other inventions with it. </P>


                        2. The idea and creation of standard time. Before the Victorian era, each town or city's time would not completely coincide with another's. This made travelling difficult, especially when the steam locomotive entered the scene. </P>


                        3. Gentlemanly manners and behaviour which our current society has sadly lost. I also find that seeing someone else's behind as a result of their clothing to be most distasteful, but that is another thing altogether. </P>


                        I'm not trying to romanticize this era (forgive the pun), as every period has had it's troubles. But this era did have it's beauty and it did give us a lot. This opinion may seem strange to someone as young as I, but I cannot help but feel this way. </P>


                        On another note, I know of an instrument not far from me which was built in the 1960's in the tracker neo-baroque reform movement. There are no pistons, no expression pedals, etc. The thought of playing on this instrument which would not lend itself to Romantic musicwould not appeal to me. </P>


                        Please don't get me wrong here. Without a doubt Iimmensely enjoyplaying Bach, Buxtehude, and others from the Baroque period. They were most definitely great composers. But to play the same era day in and day out would eventually make me feel restricted. I also need to play Reger and Franck for example. The thought of no longer playing them would make me most unhappy. I feel churches should have organs that are more versatile because every period has something so beautiful to give to us; a congregation with such an instrument may begin to believe that since all they are getting is music from one era, that this is all that there is when it comes to the organ, and during these times especially, it behoves us as organists to educate others about the King of Instruments. </P>


                        So I personally love the Victorian era. But then again, I guess my profile picture of Reger kind of gave that away I guess! Oh well, what can I say? I love playing Reger. </P>

                        Comment

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