Your tips on playibg this tune

[henrik.hank]

I have four questions on Bliv kvar hos mig (Abide with me). You may find the rhythm a bit odd but I just play it with the normal rhythm.
1. What fingerings would you use for LH in the 4 last bars (du ende trogne tröstare, bliv kvar)?
2. In the 3rd last bar there is a C in LH. I was told to play it in the RH. How would you deal with it?
3. What fingerings would you use for the RH in the two last bars? I use 2-4,1-3 with substitution to 2-4, 1-3.
4. Would you use a different fingering on the piano and organ? I use the same fingering.

I do have a teacher but I would like to hear how you think as well.

[myorgan]

Henrik,

The fingering will be different between the piano and the organ, because on the organ, the bass note is taken by the pedals, and on the piano, the hands play the bass note.

The fingering will also differ from person-to-person because everyone has different hands. My fingers are short and fat, so my fingering will be quite different from someone who has long and thin fingers.

Follow your teacher's advice and question him/her regarding the fingering. Perhaps there is a lesson (s)he is trying to teach you by suggesting that fingering.

Michael

[henrik.hank]

why would a teacher tell me to play the hymns without pedals? Do people ussually start without the pedals? I will ask him but would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it. Did you start like this?
I mean, we do try some pedaling but not for the hymns yet. I have just started taking lessons this spring semester.
I think the problem is that learning both hymns with and without pedals is too much. I don't know very much hymn playing at all. I have never really played hymn on the piano before starting the organ as you never really learn four-part hymns at the piano lessons.

[Piperdane]

The span from low Ab to C is quite a stretch, even for me with large hands. It's easier to take that tenor note with the right hand in this particular case. That would be for the piano. For organ the Ab would be taken with the left foot and the tenor note with the left hand.

In a church service environment there are times when I play a hymn verse without pedals. The constant drone of some 16' pedal stops can become tiresome, and I like to offer a variety of stop combination changes for each verse.

[henrik.hank]

The span from low Ab to C is quite a stretch, even for me with large hands. It's easier to take that tenor note with the right hand in this particular case. That would be for the piano. For organ the Ab would be taken with the left foot and the tenor note with the left hand.

In a church service environment there are times when I play a hymn verse without pedals. The constant drone of some 16' pedal stops can become tiresome, and I like to offer a variety of stop combination changes for each verse.

my teacher told me that I would have to go through all hymns and see when the highest note in the bass clef should be played in the RH. Is this what you do when playing hymns on the piano? You say that the fingerings will be different depending on your hand size. Does this mean that the fingerins in the organ exercice books are not always something that one should follow?

[myorgan]

Generally, the fingerings in the organ exercise books are good for everyone (unless they are missing fingers or a hand), and have withstood the test of time. However, when one has smaller hands, substitution between hands can be very useful.

The reason the technique on the piano is so different is because on the piano, one can hold down the pedal and lift the hand from the keys-the sound will continue until the pedal is released. However, on the organ, a person doesn't have any means of having the sound continue once the key is released.

Michael

[Piperdane]

Well, I've been an organist/pianist for over 58 years for churches and I really never had to think about what I am going to do - it just happens without having to ponder about where the note lies on the music staff. But yes, on that hymn, I would automatically take the tenor note in the RH just for the ease of playing.

[henrik.hank]

In piano book we sometimes see the fingerings written out. I, or the teacher, often change the fingering. Either it is a book with exercices of pieces. Why then shoulf I trust an organ exercice book?
and when you started out was pedaling something that began with at once or what happened in your case? I am just curious.

[myorgan]

I taught myself to play organ, so when I had my first lesson as an Organ Performance major in college, I had to re-learn much of my technique the proper way. Rather than one foot in socks, I had to learn to use both feet-heels and toes as a new technique. It took a while, but following the direction of a competent instructor is priceless!

Pedal technique was taught as a discrete technique, as are many organ techniques (including hands).

Michael

[samibe]

Generally for organ method books, if the fingering is spelled out, then there is a lesson in the fingering. Finger substitution, crossovers, slides, etc. are techniques that you may not learn if you don't follow the fingering. The more fingering techniques you know and can use, the more tools you have available to approach new songs. Fingering in a standalone piece are usually a suggestion. It is smart to try it out and see if it actually helps with playing the piece, but following the fingering exclusively isn't required.

[samibe]

For manuals only, playing the C with the right hand is the only way for most people to play all of the notes (and your right thumb is available). The substitution you said in point 4 is great for organ, but it's not required on the piano (play chord, press sustain pedal, move hands, and release sustain pedal as you play last chord).

For the LH (manuals only), I would probably slide my thumb back and forth between most of the top (tenor) notes leaving my other fingers free to get the rest and do substitutions as needed. For piano, no sliding is required if the sustain pedal is used well.

For LH (with pedals) each finger takes a different note. The pedaling would probably be a bit complicated for a beginner but isn't too bad once you are more comfortable playing with the feet.

[regeron]

Although the piano's sustain pedal will allow for more fingering freedom, I would still try to choose an efficient fingering to allow for more accuracy.

[regeron]

1. What fingerings would you use for LH in the 4 last bars (du ende trogne tröstare, bliv kvar)?
--- I would use the fingering that is easiest for me.
2. In the 3rd last bar there is a C in LH. I was told to play it in the RH. How would you deal with it?
--- I would take the C with my RH, too. Harmony rules allow for the Tenor and Bass to be more than an octave apart; this allowance is not permitted for Tenor-Alto or Alto Soprano. When you do encounter a Tenor-Bass interval larger than an octave and you are playing all 4 parts on a keyboard, it's common to play the Tenor with the RH.
3. What fingerings would you use for the RH in the two last bars? I use 2-4,1-3 with substitution to 2-4, 1-3.
--- I would use 2-4, 1-3, 2 and take the alto note with my LH since my LH was already playing that note in the previous measure.
4. Would you use a different fingering on the piano and organ? I use the same fingering.
--- If I were playing organ and not using my feet, the fingering would be very similar to what I use on the piano.
--- If I were playing organ with SAT on manuals / B with the pedal, I would have one fingering;
--- If I were playing organ with S with RH, AT with LH, and B with pedal, it would be a different fingering.

As has been said, method books (both piano and organ) are teaching you particular skills, which may require particular fingerings. Learn them so you have more fingering options.

Questions - May I ask how old you are and how many years of piano lessons, or piano playing you have had? If the age question is too personal, don't worry about it, but it would help to know how much experience you have on the piano.