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    Sixths

    Would anyone really play this melody like this? I am really confused about the fingerings for the first two bars. You see two fignerings and the one below is for piano accordion. What fingerings would you use? The fingerings for the first two bars is not even playable on my accordion. I have heard about thumbs under but not fifths finger under. Why would someone play it like this?

    #2
    - The photo is too blurry to make out the numbers clearly.
    - Whatever the language is, I don't understand it, so I can't read the text at the top to see what the student is intended to learn.
    - If the fingering for the first two measures of the RH is 1-5, 2-4, 1-5, 2-4, 1-5, it is quite playable, though maybe not everyone's first choice.
    - Historic fingerings include a lot of things, such as playing C+ scale 2-3-2-3-2-3-2-3, whether you're going up or down. You just turn your hand so the fingers can "walk" in the other direction.
    - Remember that just because you or I can't do something, that doesn't mean it's not possible.
    - What fingering would YOU use instead?

    Comment


      #3
      You can't see the fingerings on the photo (but I'm happy to say that I think I recognized the melody. It seems to be the Swedish song, "vem kann segla förutan vind").

      If you really want some suggestions regarding the fingerings, you need to make sure to post a proper photo, henrik.hank

      In case the fingering is intended for piano accordion, please bear in mind that accordion keys are narrower than piano keys so that other fingerings than on a piano might be possible. As we already stated in one of your other threads, the choice of fingering is individual and there is no clear "right" or "wrong".

      Comment


        #4
        It's just an exercise in playing in 6ths, which is a very handy thing to be able to do on organ. There are various sets of fingers that could be used for this.

        You should already know that fingering isn't something that is set in stone. There is usually no absolutely 'correct' fingering for a given piece of music, just good and bad fingering. What works for one person may be tricky for others, so try things as they're written, and see if you can come up with something that's better for you. The two provisos are 1) the fingering used must produce the desired musical result and 2) once you've decided on fingering, you must use it consistently.

        Not a teaching week goes by without my altering fingering in students' music.
        It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

        New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

        Current organ: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition
        Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball something-or-other.
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          #5
          The melody in the first two bars is just A-B-C-B-C with C-D-E-D-C added below. We are playing a melody with sixth intervals.
          The fingerings written out is 5-2, 4-1, 5-2, 4-1, 5-2.
          The Swedish text just say that one can play it like this 3-1, 4-1, 5-1 but shouldn't as the thumb doesn't create legato.
          To me the alternative with the thumb is the only playable alternative. The other alternative is weird and not good at all.
          Why these fibgeribgs? And what fingeribgs would you use?
          also, the fifths finger dont wanna move from C to B very easily.

          Comment


            #6
            Method books are there to teach us multiple good ways to solve problems. In terms of fingering, if there is more than one way to finger a passage, we need to know it. In most situations, we can fall back on the 'common fingerings', but there are odd cases in which we are better off with the alternate.

            These exercises also teach us to be more flexible. It's the same reason that some pedal exercises make us do things we might never find all together in a piece of music, but they stretch the ability of our feet/ankles/legs to accurately and efficiently play whatever might come our way. They make the difficult passages easier and the easy passages almost effortless.

            I have to say it - when you find these things in books, then claim that they are 'weird' or 'not good', or "why would anyone do this?", it shows more about your own lack of knowledge than it shows any deficiency in the book you are complaining about.

            I know that one of the unfortunate things about computer conversations is that, for the most part, we have no idea what your tone of voice is. We have to rely on your word choice, and for the most part, your word choice sounds like someone complaining, criticizing, and trying to find fault or prove someone else wrong - not like someone is who is curious, puzzled, and wanting to improve.
            **
            If I had to play that piece and it didn't tell me which fingers to use, I would use 1-3, 1-4, 2-5. That is one of the most common and accepted fingerings for a passage of three 6ths in a row. Remember that because the thumb is really the only digit that we use 'sideways', it's capable of rocking across keys in a way that the other fingers can't.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by regeron View Post
              Method books are there to teach us multiple good ways to solve problems. In terms of fingering, if there is more than one way to finger a passage, we need to know it. In most situations, we can fall back on the 'common fingerings', but there are odd cases in which we are better off with the alternate.

              These exercises also teach us to be more flexible. It's the same reason that some pedal exercises make us do things we might never find all together in a piece of music, but they stretch the ability of our feet/ankles/legs to accurately and efficiently play whatever might come our way. They make the difficult passages easier and the easy passages almost effortless.

              I have to say it - when you find these things in books, then claim that they are 'weird' or 'not good', or "why would anyone do this?", it shows more about your own lack of knowledge than it shows any deficiency in the book you are complaining about.

              I know that one of the unfortunate things about computer conversations is that, for the most part, we have no idea what your tone of voice is. We have to rely on your word choice, and for the most part, your word choice sounds like someone complaining, criticizing, and trying to find fault or prove someone else wrong - not like someone is who is curious, puzzled, and wanting to improve.
              **
              If I had to play that piece and it didn't tell me which fingers to use, I would use 1-3, 1-4, 2-5. That is one of the most common and accepted fingerings for a passage of three 6ths in a row. Remember that because the thumb is really the only digit that we use 'sideways', it's capable of rocking across keys in a way that the other fingers can't.
              You cannot see how wieird it looks when I play it.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by henrik.hank View Post

                You cannot see how wieird it looks when I play it.
                That is an odd thing to say. How weird can it possibly look? Maybe you should consider playing Trumpet or some other Brass instrument. Only three keys that are always played with the same fingers, and most of the work of obtaining pitches is done invisibly in the mouthpiece by your lips.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by henrik.hank View Post

                  You cannot see how wieird it looks when I play it.
                  It doesn't matter if it looks weird or odd or strange as long as it works for the player and feels okay.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by henrik.hank View Post
                    You cannot see how wieird it looks when I play it.
                    During one period of study, I moved to a foreign country and had to learn a second language. I had trouble with some of the phrases in the new language. The grammar and word order sounded "weird" to me as an English-speaker. So I refused to speak the way the locals spoke.

                    It took a while but I eventually realized that in their eyes, I was the weird one, so I gave up my foolish pride and stubbornness and started to accept how their language worked.

                    I survived. I learned the language better and the locals didn't consider me to be weird. And my overall language skills started to improve faster than before.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I have a hard time reaching B with my fourth finger. I wonder if one needs bigger hands for this. But I do not have small hands.
                      Even with an extreme stretch this is hard.
                      can certain hands have problem with this?
                      What shouöd one do? An extreme stretch?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by henrik.hank View Post
                        I have a hard time reaching B with my fourth finger. I wonder if one needs bigger hands for this. But I do not have small hands.
                        Even with an extreme stretch this is hard.
                        can certain hands have problem with this?
                        What shouöd one do? An extreme stretch?
                        Can you play a sixth with thumb and third finger?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by henrik.hank View Post
                          I have a hard time reaching B with my fourth finger.
                          Do you mean the white key "b" (the Germans call it "h", the French call it "si") oder the black key "b flat" or "a sharp" (called "b" oder "ais" in German and "si bémol" or "la dièse" in French)?

                          To reach the black key, it can be helpful to move your hand further inwards, and/or to turn the wrist slightly. Your teacher should be able to show you a few helpful techniques. It's hard to give advice without having seen (and heard) how you're currently doing it.

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