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  • #16
    David,

    Yes the 7 -11 songs, and how I hate them. It is a shame how many of the main line churches don't even sing a whole hymn anymore. Some just sing a verse and chorus or two verses at the most then flow right into something else. It seems they had rather do the 7 - 11 bit with words flashed on a screen.

    As I have heard over the years the Spirit will be lifted from the church, and it is beginning to happen right now since so many churches have gone to a show complete with theater seats, lights, and all kinds of instruments except a piano and organ. I know of a church in my area that has given the contemporary group the prime 11 AM hour.

    They just recently completed a renovation of the Sanctuary complete with theater seats, etc. Their pipe organ is being worked on by some firm to make it digital, and it has been out of service since the second Sunday this coming December for two years. They moved back into the Sanctuary from the annex building several months with a promise the pipe organ would be ready in a month.

    The traditional service is at 9 AM, and a keyboard with an organ sound has been the organ for all this time. The grand piano is off in storage out of sight and mind.

    I am so glad I am out of the racket, and have been for over 10 years.

    James
    Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
    Baldwin Spinet 58R
    Lowrey Spinet SCL
    Wurlitzer 4100A
    Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois


    Organs I hope to obtain in the future:

    Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
    Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
    Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models

    Comment


    • #17
      james,

      I understand what you're talking about. My own church in fact has that schedule, with traditional worship at 9 a.m., Sunday School at 10, and contemporary worship at 11. Sometimes I feel a little sad about that, since people have to come out so early in order to attend traditional worship, and that seems especially cruel for the older people, who make up a good part of the membership. But the 9 a.m service continues to draw 2 or 3 times as many attendees as the 11 a.m.

      Most people can adapt to the schedule, as we have. These days, I enjoy getting to worship early in the day, which lets me relax for the rest of the day. It won't seem so great when winter gets here and it's barely daylight when we head out to church!

      I'm in favor of making worship an immersive sensory experience, engaging all the senses, and I think hymnals are a vital part of making that happen.

      See the beauty of the architecture and the art and uplifting messages on the banners. Hear the music and the spoken word. Smell candles and (when present) incense. Taste the bread and the wine or juice. Feel the Bible and the Hymnal in your hands.

      To me, that makes for a wonderful worship experience! In churches where everybody has to look at a screen for their music and their scripture, a vital part of the experience is missing. Churches that have done away with beautiful architecture in favor of a plain metal building painted black on the inside are also missing out on something. And IMHO those who have relegated communion and candles to rarely-held special services are also missing something that can be so very meaningful. (Of course I was a Baptist most of my life and only discovered the joy of weekly communion in my Disciples church, where I've been four years now.)

      But I am always glad to hear of a new hymnal becoming available. It keeps some hope alive at least!
      John
      ----------
      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

      Comment


      • #18
        I got the Celebrating Grace accompanist's version in today and have been playing from it.

        It has excellent, clear large print that's easy to read and has the statistically oft-misplayed notes in parentheses, which I appreciate.

        It has the responsive readings mixed in with the hymns and given numbers. I'd rather see these elsewhere (like in some other book), as this clogs up the indexes and makes finding hymns harder than it has to be.

        The binder is very good quality, with a polished, chrome-like mechanism and an off-center tri-fold design that takes up a lot of room to the left on the music rack. It's well worth the $50.

        I'm very pleased with it.
        -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
        -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
        -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

        Comment


        • #19
          I think the current trend of mixing in the responsive readings and other spoken materials with the hymns is a bad idea, though I understand why they do it. I sort of liked the old system of having a completely separate portion of the book for those. Having them all in one place made it easier to find an appropriate selection when seeking one on a given theme. Perhaps future publishers will go back to the old way of doing it.

          Glad to hear that it has excellent clear printing. From what I've seen in the on-line ads, it looks very much like the Baptist 1991, which was also a marvel of clarity, with perfect fonts and just the right contrast and darkness of the printing in the scores.

          I also think that the pages have just the right amount of extra info on them, not too cluttered, but showing all the important stuff, such as the tune name, meter, alternate tunes and keys, dates, etc. That's another thing that the Baptist 1991 had just right.

          Also, to the Baptists' credit, their hymnals have always featured the best arrangements of just about every tune, and their judicious emendations and stanza selections have always been more thoughtful than some other hymnals. I've especially become aware of these two things in trying to adapt to the Chalice, which has some rather peculiar arrangements of several tunes, and seems to have chosen some of the most peculiar stanzas to include on certain hymns while leaving out a few that I thought were the best.

          So you might say that I still love the Baptist 1991 that I enjoyed for so many years in my former denomination, and I'm glad to see what amounts to a nice updated version of the same hymnal with a number of worthy additions, and without any of the fluff thrown in to appeal to the contemporary worship crowd.
          John
          ----------
          *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

          https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

          Comment


          • #20
            My main go-to hymnal has been a 91 SBC accomp. version that I bought used. I'm looking for a better used one so I can retire this one. The pages are so wavy it's hard to get consistent lighting. I think CG is actually a little nicer in the fonts/clarity department and the contrast is terrific. New hymnals are so NICE to have.

            I still play out of the 56 Baptist, as it's what I grew up with. Nothing else is like "The Kingdom is Coming!" and talk about no longer politically correct... But I fail to see what's politically incorrect about "His Way with Thee."
            -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
            -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
            -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

            Comment


            • #21
              I hadn't thought about either of those in a long time, SP! Yes, "The Kingdom Is Coming" would be far from PC these days. I suppose "His Way With Thee" might sound a little suggestive in the wrong way to some people!

              Your references gave me a reason to pull my 1956 off the shelf for the first time in a long time. I always thought it was a great hymnal, and I still think it was produced with a lot of attention to detail. Compared to the old Broadman that preceded it by a decade or so, it is highly refined, and of course more "high church" style too. I remember when my church changed over from the Broadman to the 1956 some time in the 60's, and I thought it was a great upgrade, though I wasn't all that aware of the reasons for the changes. It just looked so much neater to me, as a pianist. However, looking at it today, I realize how much cleaner and readable the 1991 is.

              The 1975 was a blip, a slip-up, not a helpful revision. The book itself looked less substantial, the pages seemed somehow bare, the font seemed less clear. And a number of "new" hymns were included that were out of date before they sold the first copy. Baptists' first attempt to get relevant and cool, I suppose. The "young people" were being exposed to the music of Ralph Carmichael and the like via the "youth musicals" that were all the rage in church camps and youth conferences. So I guess the powers at Broadman Press thought it time to put some of that material into the hymnal.

              Then 1991 gave us a genuine classic. They left out the fluff from 1975 that didn't survive, returned to a bolder font, made the paper sturdier, restored a few hymns from 1956 and even from the Broadman, I think. And included just a smattering of the best "new" stuff. Remarkably, almost every new song they chose has endured to this day. Somebody learned a lesson from 1975.

              My disappointment with 2008 is well known, and I'm not the only one of course. But it's nice to see these good new ones coming off the presses. Let's keep on singing the good ones!
              John
              ----------
              *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

              https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

              Comment


              • #22
                I also think the 77 "New Broadman Hymnal" is a good hymnal to play from. Even the pew edition is sharp, although the typesetting is a bit dark and a little bit of a throw-back. At least it's consistent.
                Last edited by Silken Path; 09-17-2015, 05:34 AM. Reason: Kant speil
                -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                Comment


                • #23
                  When is someone going to come out with a hymnal that uses off-white pages so the music isn't overly-contrasted between black and white? Lately, there's been a big push to make the pages whiter/brighter than ever, and I find that difficult to play from--especially with a light within 6">12" from the page.

                  Michael
                  Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                  • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                  • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                  • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    The problem with "contemporary" music is that the definition of contemporary changes every decade or so. I have a couple of "independent" hymnals from the early Eighties that have a lot of tunes from the Sixties and Seventies. While those songs certainly had their fans then, nearly all of them have disappeared. I don't have anything against Contemporary Services per se; one just needs to keep in mind that the music will not have a terribly long shelf life. . . .

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                    • #25
                      I didn't see a link or a price to order the acc. version Silken. Did ya just walk down there and knock on the door? Smiles.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I purchased a choir edition of Celebrating Grace recently. It IS a nice hymnal, and I've been going through it looking at hymns for future use. Thanks for mentioning it. As an aside, when I called the publisher to place the order, I got a good dose of Southern hospitality - sweet people.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by searchinferu View Post
                          I didn't see a link or a price to order the acc. version Silken. Did ya just walk down there and knock on the door? Smiles.
                          Nope, but I could have. Here's the one I ordered.

                          http://www.celebrating-grace.com/sto...panist-edition
                          -- I'm Lamar -- Allen TC-4 Classic project, 1899 Kimball project
                          -- Rodgers W5000, Juno DS-61/88, FA-06 - Conn 643 - Hammond M3, E112, L-102
                          -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by myorgan View Post
                            When is someone going to come out with a hymnal that uses off-white pages so the music isn't overly-contrasted between black and white? Lately, there's been a big push to make the pages whiter/brighter than ever, and I find that difficult to play from--especially with a light within 6">12" from the page.

                            Michael
                            My favorite older hymnal from 1964 has cream colored pages, and as you said it is such a joy to read the notes from! The contrast is not violent, and no matter what source of light hits the page you can still make out all the notes correctly. The pages are also all a bit thicker and the darker cream color just makes it look better overall. The 1964 "The Northfield & Mount Hermon Hymnal" is that to which I refer, and although it is not associated with any denomination directly, it seems to lean kind of Methodist. I have noticed has has the broadest collection of everyone's favorites however. I would be interested to know if anyone else has even heard of it, being that it was only used at the two schools in its namesake...
                            Andover Organ Co. Opus 67
                            Memorial Chapel
                            37 Ranks, 2 Manual Tracker
                            16' Pousane best stop there is

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                            • #29
                              Probably a bit late of me to suggest, but I do have a copy of Worship & Rejoice if there's any information anyone here would like out of it.

                              Personally, I have a fondness for the hymnal I grew up with, the 1966 Methodist hymnal. But I have a few others, too - and I've done some of my own arrangements of stuff out of them.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Speaking of interesting hymnals, I came across one a couple of years ago while visiting a cousin who is Seventh-Day Adventist. The SDA hymnal has a very nice selection of hymns, and I bought an accompanist copy at their bookstore in Lancaster, Massachusetts.

                                I grew up with the dark blue 1933 Methodist Hymnal (not UMC yet) and it is still one of my favorites. (The arrangement of W ZLOBIE LEZY is just fabulous!)

                                David

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