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Hymns in a Too-High Key

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  • #46
    Hi Steve, I'm good to post on the forum now. Since its a choir piece and on a electronic organ with auxiliary in and outputs I will just play it, record it, and re- pitch it according to the need and play it back with fill-in. In fact the choir can practice the piece as such. I have a number of Psalms and Hymns pre-recorded and the pitch adjusted. The how-to video I send to you in PM.
    Keep us posted on how you solved your problem!


    • #47
      Originally posted by myorgan View Post
      I'm sorry, I thought I had provided the information below.

      Sibelius used to come with an application called Photo Score Lite (spacing may be different when you search). With a high quality scan, as stated before, it does a great job of importing basic music (like hymns) into Sibelius. It came free with Sibelius. Certain things (i.e. crescendo markings, articulation, etc.) do not import in the Lite version, but they are reported to in the Professional version (http://www.sibelius.com/products/photoscore/lite.html). There is also a *ouTube video comparing the two versions!

      I used to do some scanning with Sibelius but I always found it took a lot of work tidying it up afterwards. Music Publisher (https://www.lauriso.com/


      • #48
        Originally posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
        I used to do some scanning with Sibelius but I always found it took a lot of work tidying it up afterwards. Music Publisher (https://www.lauriso.com/
        Excellent information on the differences between the two. I wonder if PhotoScore has gotten any better over time?


        P.S. OK, now, you can stop bragging about how worthless our dollar is!
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 6 Pianos


        • #49
          Sibelius wasn't the culprit, most likely. Photoscore Lite, and indeed the full version too, will never be 100% accurate left to its own devices. It's become better over the years, but still always takes some work within the programme itself to produce a good result that will then copy across to Sibelius and avoid too much work. But, as Peterboroughdiapason says, there will always be some tidying up to do. With a bit of effort in Sibelius you can get to the point where you can input things from scratch faster than you can scan, tweak, import and correct. And with public domain works, there are often XML versions available, that Sibelius can import. Again, some tidying required, but not so much.

          Sibelius First or Finale Print Music are both probably good and sophisticated enough to do most work involved in copying and resetting music like this - and they're much less expensive than their full versions (and Music Publisher), but there is always the Musescore which, while it lacks the overall quality of the other two, nevertheless does the job quite well for a programme that's free of charge! And its worth checking to see if you qualify for an educational discount on the big boys. Students and teachers, once they've proved who and what they are, get generous discount of anything up to 50%.
          It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

          New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

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          • #50
            I, too, have found that correcting a scanned-in copy is often as much or more work than inputting it myself at the computer keyboard, a process at which I'm pretty quick by now. It's a royal PITA, if you'll forgive my language, to have to worry about finding the mistakes in something that, at first glance, might appear to be mostly correct.



            • #51
              A higher than 440 was more in vogue a few decades ago than it is now from what I understand. Most orchestras tune to A=440 now from what I understand.



              • #52
                It seems to me that "perfect pitch" must to some extent be a learned skill, in that the individual notes and their corresponding pitches have changed over the centuries. If Bach were put in front of an modern Allen organ, would he be concerned that middle C sounded like a different note (this assumes that Bach had 'perfect pitch')? In the end, no one could possibly be born knowing what "A" was in 1700, versus what "A" is today. However, the ability to learn and retain which named notes correspond to a given pitch and to be able to call up and produce that pitch without a reference note is certainly a tremendous skill. It is a bit arbitrary however, given that orchestras tune to different pitches, and different instruments (historic and otherwise) are tuned to different pitches. In the end, there is no right or wrong pitch, and to suggest that a note is 'wrong' because it is different than what you learned seems counter-productive in the extreme. It is the intervals and rhythms that produce the musical effects, and the naming of the individual pitches is quite unimportant.

                I will say that I do hear the difference between key signatures, and most of the time, I can call up and sing the notes that I have learned without a reference. However, I don't immediately notice (or at least it doesn't bother me) when someone plays in a different key than what is written. I suppose that means I don't have "perfect pitch". However, I can clearly hear that the same song played in different key signatures sound different (usually, one sounds 'brighter' than the other). Is this due to the effects of equal temperament? I have to say this has always mystified me. . .

                PS - that kid truly is amazing. I wonder what use he will put that ear to?
                Last edited by ArthurCambronne; 05-23-2016, 07:12 PM.

                Johann Sebastian Bach

                (at Home) Conn 645 Theater Deluxe
                (at Church) 1836 E. & G.G. Hook Bros, Opus 26


                • #53
                  Originally posted by ArthurCambronne
                  It seems to me that "perfect pitch" must to some extent be a learned skill, in that the individual notes and their corresponding pitches have changed over the centuries.

                  The best way to think of perfect pitch is like having an accent in a language; take a child, move them to a new country before age 5, and most will learn to speak the new language fluently and without a foreign accent. The older you move the child, the less likely fluency occurs, and the less likely accent-less speak is achieved. It still happens when they're older, and these are all just generalizations, of course.

                  One telling example is the higher occurrence of perfect pitch in areas of the world where language makes greater use of pitched inflection - China is one such example. The earlier pitch awareness occurs, the more likely perfect pitch is to develop. And, of course, it will be based on what one hears, as you correctly observe - again, think language and the whole business makes perfect (pun intended) sense.



                  • #54
                    You make some very good points here. Perfect pitch is truly a relative thing (no pun intended here as there is also "relative pitch"!). I would have to agree with you that perfect pitch is definitely a "learned" thing, too. I would also agree that it happens when people are much younger. The whole issue really lies in the ears - the ability to recognize particular tones and pitches. Of course, this is combined with a good memory as well. Still, it must be learned over time. I know that for myself, I started playing the piano when I was 5 years old. I can't hardly remember a time that I didn't hear those notes in my head. My parents also constantly played music in our home from as far back as I can remember. For me, they just got "stuck" in my head and I could always hear them. I've had literally thousands of hours logged in playing over a lifetime - there were very few days in my life that I did not play the piano at least a half hour each day if not more. I say this to make the point that repeated exposure over time surely has to have something to do with it. Even now, I can read musical scores and hear the notes and parts in my head before they are played out loud. I've written many arrangements away from the piano, in the quiet of my room. Again, this is a learned skill, not something you are "born with" as many people say. I think some people do have more of a propensity for doing it, though. It would be interesting for someone to do a study on people with "perfect pitch" to find the common factors between them. I know I'd be very interested in finding out more.

                    Hammond L143 with Leslie 760


                    • #55
                      @musikfan, those studies have been done. Early exposure is the biggest thing in common.

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