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  • myorgan
    replied
    Originally posted by Tour Biker View Post
    I will try and keep focus on the subject of Psalms and Hymns and will take PM's about the software I choose.
    Johan,

    No need to keep the conversation private--just start a new thread in the forum for Virtual Organs or MIDI. I'm sure you can benefit from the wealth of information there, and we can benefit from your input as you travel the road of the virtual organ.

    Best of luck in your endeavor.

    Michael

    P.S. Is there a reason you chose the 3.5 Octave keyboard rather than a full 5-Octave 61-note keyboard? I would think you would find it helpful to have the full keyboard for Hymns and/or Classical music.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    I haven't posted for a while... cause I'm building my own organ now! I had the opportunity on the pipe organ and realize the FE30 is no good for me anymore! I started my journey with church music, Psalm and Hymns on Virtual organ! A picture first... here is my organ in creation!
    Click image for larger version

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    I will try and keep focus on the subject of Psalms and Hymns and will take PM's about the software I choose.

    The presets on the organ samples is absolutely awesome! This is essential to practice intro's and outgo's.

    I have started recording Psalms and Hymns and will combine a variety in one video in stead of having a video for each. My idea is to play it the way we do here in rural South Africa. The idea of the video will be religious soft listening style... More the use of soft pipes and from the swell's division rather than a constant full organ... Although the Great division does sound awesome...

    This is a real interesting subject and I found all the comments awesome!

    Organ Greetings!
    Johan

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  • Jimmy D
    replied
    Going back to when I had to "retype" traditional standard for my HS in music theory... Most hyms can easily be introduced by the last 4 to 8 "measures"(in 4s).... It reinforces the chorus/theme and sigals when to sing

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  • buricco
    replied
    Funnily, I've never associated "Take my life and let it be" with HENDON, but always with with MESSIAH (77.77 D), which is what both the 1966 and 1989 Methodist hymnals pair it with. HENDON was for "Ask ye what great thing I know".

    I know TOPLADY for "Rock of ages, cleft for me".
    Last edited by buricco; 06-16-2016, 12:46 AM. Reason: Corrected a title.

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  • quantum
    replied
    Originally posted by Tour Biker View Post
    I have had some great communications lately with organists all over SA. In this country Intro's and Outgo's are played most of the time. The replies from this forum confirm the fact that the intro can be any part as "That particular" congregation is used to their organist. Someone said to me yesterday that the organist becomes a part of the congregation and most of the time a congregation is uneasy with a new or temporary organist.
    Glad to hear you were able to contact local musicians and learn more on local playing traditions.

    It can be both good and bad if a congregation gets very accustomed to a particular organist. The good: as they know each other well, they can dive deeper into music making rather than simply following the leader. The bad: certain habits, not all of them good ones, can be ingrained with the congregation. A congregation may over time associate a bad habit with "tradition" and make working with other musicians difficult. If you are going in as an unfamiliar organist, ease into the congregations singing traditions. Over time as you build trust, you can gently wean them off certain habits and direct them towards better music making.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by quantum View Post
    Just noticed something when examining your link and hymnary.org:
    The text in your link, Neem my lewe, laat dit Heer has a meter of 77.77.77, with Toplady as the associated tune.
    According to Hymnary, Take My Life and Let it Be has a meter of 77777 (that's one 7 less) with the most commonly used tune listed as Hendon.

    The meters don't match.

    It seems the tune you are looking to study is Toplady, if that is the tune you use at your church, or one with a compatible meter.

    If you were wondering how Toplady was found, it is because I recognized it from the linked mp3 for #190. It would have meant more research if the tune was unfamiliar to me. Here's the Hymnary link to that tune
    http://www.hymnary.org/tune/toplady_hastings


    Wow! You have just answer my other question before I even asked it, cause I was a bit scared I still got something wrong! I noticed the "tune" wasn't familiar to me and I thought... my mistake! I have to give one small credit to that site and that is the MP3 play associated with the listing.

    I have had some great communications lately with organists all over SA. In this country Intro's and Outgo's are played most of the time. The replies from this forum confirm the fact that the intro can be any part as "That particular" congregation is used to their organist. Someone said to me yesterday that the organist becomes a part of the congregation and most of the time a congregation is uneasy with a new or temporary organist.

    Something that is also catching on here is the "youth bundle" with songs in both Afrikaans and English. I like to "jam" on my organ practicing Psalms and Hymns with a beat. I develop a sort of rhythm when I play without beat. The same rule goes with playing from the youth bundle. Intro and Outro.

    Thanks for the replies!
    Johan

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  • quantum
    replied
    One thing that may help you when researching hymns is the tune name (as myorgan demonstrated above). The tune and text of a hymn can be two separate things, and matching tunes and texts can be interchanged. Your hymn book may have different tunes matched to the text as other hymn books, and there are likely cultural and regional traditions in place as well.

    If you can identify the tune name for a particular hymn you can then use that tune name to research online, as opposed to using the common title or first line (which is obviously problematic when searching outside the vernacular language). Depending on the hymn book, the tune name can be printed beside the composer details, or maybe even beside the common title. It might also have a set of numbers printed beside it these numbers indicate the meter of the text. If the tune and text have the same meter they can be exchanged.


    Just noticed something when examining your link and hymnary.org:
    The text in your link, Neem my lewe, laat dit Heer has a meter of 77.77.77, with Toplady as the associated tune.
    According to Hymnary, Take My Life and Let it Be has a meter of 77777 (that's one 7 less) with the most commonly used tune listed as Hendon.

    The meters don't match.

    It seems the tune you are looking to study is Toplady, if that is the tune you use at your church, or one with a compatible meter.

    If you were wondering how Toplady was found, it is because I recognized it from the linked mp3 for #190. It would have meant more research if the tune was unfamiliar to me. Here's the Hymnary link to that tune
    http://www.hymnary.org/tune/toplady_hastings


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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Wow Micheal... Thanks for the effort an guidance... Stunning! I'll certainly follow your guidelines. I'm busy to load the computer for the organ in the church museum...
    With some good advice from Nico, I'm getting there! I'll load that organ with Hymnals as well. Sadly the base pedals is still not working... but I'm getting there! From dead wood to this....
    https://youtu.be/IqfOw1aFvZ8
    Thanks Micheal!
    Johan

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  • myorgan
    replied
    So, Tour Biker,

    Here's the process I used:
    1. I visited your website and obtained the text for Hymn #190, and copied the URL (aka web page address).
    2. I visited translate.google.com, pasted the link, chose Afrikaans as the source language, and asked it to translate to English.
    3. From the text given, I was able to ascertain the English translation of the hymn is Take My Life and Let it Be (more accurately--Take my life and let it be consecrated).
    4. Next, I visited hymnary.org, and typed in the first few words of the text, and obtained the following link: http://www.hymnary.org/text/take_my_life_and_let_it_be.
    Granted, this is a convoluted process for you to follow in a language foreign to you, and you need to have some command or knowledge of the English texts, but it can be done. In the Afrikaans translation, I recognized the text Silver and Gold, let me sing, and take my hands and let them move. The other hint I followed, is that I recognized in the Afrikaans translation that the last two lines of each verse were repeated twice--the same as the English hymn.

    As you practice with English, you'll become better at recognizing the words. If I remember correctly, Afrikaans is based on Dutch, which is very similar to German. In reality, many German words are very close (if not the same) as English words. I hope this helps a bit.

    Have fun with your new toy.

    Michael

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by myorgan View Post
    I'm glad to see you can now post!
    Thanks! You are the real good buddy here! I do e-mail with Nico, but more technical aspects. I am very impressed with information and learning on new and exiting sites like hymnary.org! There is a South African site ... but in comparison its poor.... Readers should find this link interesting... They tried a something similar in Afrikaans.

    To compare one doesn't really need to translate the language... As example its all links... The Hymn number and after the dash the title.
    (Example.... Gesang(Hymn) 190 - And the title.) Sadly the listings is incomplete and with the Psalms... only three... Someone got lazy...

    http://www.webwoord.co.za/sangmusiek...ectedMenuID=88

    Have a look and one can only admire the effort to Hymnary.org!

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  • myorgan
    replied
    Johan,

    I believe hymnary.org is only available in English. The hymn, How Great Thou Art is located at: http://www.hymnary.org/text/o_lord_m...awesome_wonder. The other piece (#190), I would need to have a tune name, title, or lyrics to be able to figure it out. I'm sure there are a multitude of hymnbooks with the same name, but different contents--depending on the denomination of the church (i.e. Baptist, Episcopal, Anglican, Catholic, etc.). Should I assume the language of your hymnal is Afrikaans? There is another member from South Africa, and he may be able to help translate for you.

    To get this result, I typed the title in the search blank at the top of the page. This search brought up a list of lyrics from the first line of the hymn, and I chose the lyrics that fit the tune I knew. You can verify your results by comparing them with the music pictured at the bottom of the page.

    I hope this gets you started.

    Michael

    P.S. I'm glad to see you can now post!

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by myorgan View Post
    ... check the two page hymn Holy, Holy, Holy at the bottom of this link...
    @ myorgan, Micheal can you please guide me with HYMNARY.ORG. My English is poor and obviously incorrect spelling or names don't show results. How do I find the Hymnary.org page for, How Great Thou Art and Hymn 190 from the old Psalm and Hymn book. I can't search the words as they are in my language and a direct translation helps none. I'll really appreciate.

    Johan

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  • andijah
    replied
    I had to do a looong intro to one song yesterday, since it wasn't well known to both congregations and what's more, the melody is pentatonic in Chinese style, so our pastor asked me to help the singers along. Good that the thing has 6 verses, by the end of the last one most people seem to have grasped the melody.

    I'm ambivalent when it comes to unfamiliar hymns. On the one hand, there are so many seldom sung hymns which deserve to be sung more often, but on the other hand it's quite a hassle to get the congregation singing if you don't have a supporting choir.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by quantum View Post
    If the hymn is new or unfamiliar, one can play the melody of the entire verse in unison as the intro. No harmony, no chords, just unison left and right hands. If you feel up to it you could play the melody in the pedals as well. When it comes time to sing, then you can add the harmony parts. There is nothing wrong with unison playing and singing, especially if it assists the congregation with the music.
    Thank you very much for this input. It's becoming a "new" unfolding story where a lot of things start to make sense! I'm so glad you mentioned unfamiliar Psalms and Hymns. I think here they are sort of avoided. Most of the time they stick to familiar music as the a sort of "enthusiasm" within the congregation singing familiar Hymns.

    I visited the organist yesterday and she listen to my MP3's. As used to playing a home organ in the first inversion, I hold down a chord and she said it wouldn't sound right on that pipe organ. She gave me a few pointers playing the chords on her piano. I'm practicing as such. I now only practice playing on the lower keyboard only.

    Something else you mention is playing the tune on the bass pedals. Pity home most home organs comes only with one octave bass pedals. (13) It would have been nice if the average was 20 and that would widen the capacity of any organ. I tried playing "tune" on the 27 bass pedal Viscount in the museum. Sadly those people don't like organ music and find people playing there a nuisance.

    Thanks for your wonderful input and I'm still practicing!

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  • quantum
    replied
    An into can be a number of different things depending on the situation.

    For example: With hymn familiar to the congregation, one could use the first 4 bars (or whatever the length of the first phrase is), the last 4 bars, or a combination of both. If it is a particularly lengthy or repetitive hymn with many verses, one may opt for a shorter intro.

    If the hymn is new or unfamiliar, one can play the melody of the entire verse in unison as the intro. No harmony, no chords, just unison left and right hands. If you feel up to it you could play the melody in the pedals as well. When it comes time to sing, then you can add the harmony parts. There is nothing wrong with unison playing and singing, especially if it assists the congregation with the music.

    Generally the intro sets up the tempo, phrasing, breathing, and character of the hymn. So for registration, I would use something similar to what would be used when singing the hymn. Sure you can have a color change in registration, but generally not a drastic shift in volume. If there is some quiet preluding before the hymn, I would generally do one of two things: end the prelude, change to hymn registration, then play the hymn intro; or gradually build registration to seamlessly transition into the hymn registration to play the intro. A quiet hymn intro followed by full organ registration for singing is not something I have heard before, but your traditions may be different.

    In many of the churches I've played at, the organist stops playing when the singing stops. Outros may be needed if the hymn ends in the middle of some other liturgical movement such as a procession. If the procession is not yet finished, the organist continues to play (usually improvise) until the appropriate liturgical timing. Registration can remain in the character of the hymn. Quiet outros I have most frequently encountered in RC churches. I think it is also effective to use the outro to transition into the next liturgical moment.


    There's nothing wrong with changing keys to aid singing. Just don't go too far from what is written. One to two semitones up or down is often safe.

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