Don't want to develop bad habits/technique

[JoelHof]

Old guy new to organ playing and I eventually want to be able to play traditional hymns (LCMS).

Musical background: Played baritone horn for ten years when I was in school many moons ago. In this I learned to read music in the treble clef, but limited in different "keys" of scales per se. Over the years I dabbled in guitar playing and general keyboards in a synth/midi fashion. I understand music from a basic mathematical sense as far as timing and some chord and progression structure. My keyboard playing is novice at best and my left hand/fingers are far from independent of my right. I can play most hymn melodies with my right hand, with a little practice, just from sight reading. I acquired a home organ less than 3 weeks ago, and have had my first experiences with using my feet. I've found my feet cooperate independently better than my left hand to my astonishment!

I've done a bit of research on-line to figure out a way to achieve my goal of being able to play. I've been practicing every day starting with the Hanon exercises, No. 1 to be precise LOL, and "The Modern Organist" lessons from the Pointer System. I've actually had some success with this so far and am starting to make progress. I also attempt to play some hymns as I have over the years with my keyboard dabbling, but find them very difficult to even begin as my left hand doesn't cooperate independently. I'm assuming this will all gradually come to fruition with many hours/years of practice.

Do to the fact that I cannot at this time afford an organ tutor and am probably no where near a level where an organ teacher would even accept to teach me, and no desire to start on the piano, I have several questions if anyone wants to help me with this daunting task:

1. First off, my biggest fear is that I am attempting this with no personal training or feed back on technique. Mechanics I think I can learn on my own but technique? I don't want to start off developing bad habits from the get go. Is there a good way to address this without a teacher? Record myself and self-review? Scary ...

2. In doing my on-line "research" I'm trying to figure how to split the parts of a hymn up. I've read the soprano or melody part goes to the right hand most of the time, with the alto and tenor to the left and bass to the pedals. Is this how it's done with a typical hymn from a hymnal? Alto seems to be in the treble clef with tenor in the bass clef. I'm "seeing double" when I'm trying to sight read! LOL. Is this what is done to split the parts up or is there a special "hymnal" for the organist that has hymns already arranged/split up for the organ. Does each individual do this differently?

3. Are there any easy arrangements of traditional hymns that I could start to learn and practice with that would give me some sense of semi-immediate gratification. Simple whole/half note chords with the left hand, melody with the right and simple bass line for the pedals. Or specific hymns that are simple enough to begin with.

4. I know it's a long and arduous journey, but am I even on the right track to start with?

I have many more questions but this is a good start. I have a new found respect and appreciation for the organists that have inspired my love of hymns played in the traditional sense.

Please pardon my ignorance and lack of knowledge and understanding on all of these subjects. Any direction you could give me would be much appreciated. I've gotten such a thrill out of just the simple music that I've been able to play from my lesson book but they are purely secular. I can't wait for the day when this instrument can sing to the glory of God.

God's Blessings,

Joel

[Leisesturm]

Hmmmmmmmmmm... ... a lot to unpack there Joel. I'm pretty Agnostic on the value of lessons per se because I am pretty thoroughly self-taught. I'm old too, 60. And it matters how old you are as well. You haven't said. Some people say they are old at 50, and some aren't claiming that label yet even after their 70th anniversary. I want to be encouraging but I want to be helpful as well. You are way overthinking this. Music is an art and a science but if one of those is less important it would be the science. You WILL develop 'bad habits' at this point. Can't be helped. And? So what? You aren't attempting a concert career. It doesn't matter.

You have the instrument in your home. Congratulations. You are playing it regularly. Great. Continue. Mechanics and technique are one and the same. Scales are the foundation of technique. There is no scales manual published that will not include the fingerings for said scales because fingerings are the essential foundation for scale playing. Learn those fingerings. Learn those scales. Everything flows from that. I don't think about the 'parts' of the hymns that I play. I think about the notes. The great thing about hymns is that you already know the tune. This allows you to reverse engineer the 'technique' of playing it. What, please tell, is the LCMS family of hymnody? It's not ringing any bells from the acronym.

I am a little fearful of this next part ... bear with me ... so you want to know if there are 'easy' arrangements of hymns and there are, however, this is the thing ... hymns are songs. They don't really need keyboard accompaniment! An adult beginner organ method will have several hymns arranged for easy playing but it will (as you know) also have simple Minuets and Etudes to develop your keyboard dexterity. I am not hearing that you are much interested in the other kinds of keyboard music. To be honest with you. The organ is the last instrument I want to SING hymns on. It is, however, the first and best (IMO) instrument to ACCOMPANY hymns on. And when I accompany a hymn, if there isn't someone or something around to SING it, then it is usually impossible to recognize the hymn at all.

It's too bad you are clear across the country. I'd love to help get you up to speed. I also have a French Horn I hardly play that you could borrow. I have to say though, I don't think you are missing much not having one. IMO with your baritone horn history you should try to find a Euphonium and get good on that. That's what I intend to do. In the right hands both the French Horn and the Euph can do similar (good) things to a listener. And playing a Euphonium is tons easier.

[regeron]

- A good teacher will teach you, whatever level you are at.
- Start simple and work on one or two styles of music until they become comfortable, then branch out.
- Go through your hymn book to find the simpler arrangements of straightforward hymns - work on those.
- RH takes Soprano and Alto; LH takes Tenor and Bass. Pedal can double the Bass line for now. The AltoTenor combined in the LH is a good idea, but save it for later.
- Be comfortable with manuals alone - it's still legitimate.
- Pedal technique - just do it - take one of those hymns and play the Bass line with the pedals - no hands, no manual work. Focus on the pedal. Also, choose an 8' or 4' pedal stop and play the melody alone with your feet (again, no hands) - strive to make it musical.

Books - something that builds good technique is what you want.
Arrangements - Since you already have some reading skills, use those to find music that looks approachable for you. To start, get a book that has one- or two-page arrangements with no page turns. (There is nothing like a two-page piece with a page turn between the two pages to show the incompetency of the editor/publisher.)
- Consider using simple piano arrangements of hymns - pianists need to work on the same issues: note-reading, hand/finger coordination, timing, rhythm. If you want to add pedal, just double the bottom note of the LH.
- At the learning stage, big notes can be helpful. Maybe not the really big notes, but if the notes are too small, it can be off-putting at this point.

Self-recording - include video if you can. Check for posture. You want to be as relaxed as possible when you play. Only the fingers and feet are actually active. The rest of your body just holds those parts in the right place to play the notes.

Above all, do what brings you pleasure. That alone will keep you practicing and playing more than anything else, and eventually it's the hours spent doing "happy work" that will bring you closer to your goal.

Good luck! Keep us informed.

[samibe]

1. Experienced eyes are extremely helpful for catching and fixing issues early. I don't know many teachers that would turn away a student that is willing to work and put in the effort to learn.
2. That's one option for hymn playing. Another is SA with right hand, T with left hand, and B with pedals. Alternatively, TB in left hand (though that might be harder for you). It is easier for pianists.
3. My hymn experience is LDS but there are several LDS hymns that were borrowed from protestant hymnals. Here is a free book that's manuals only (though you could play the left hand parts with your feet). Look through it and print any of the hymns you might recognize. There's also this one. It's much easier, though it is not written for organ specifically (no pedal line). There also seems to be a series of Simplified Hymn settings for organ listed online, though I don't have any idea how "simplified" they are. It looks like UMC has several volumes of simplified hymns (here is volume 3). They are listed for piano, but could be played on organ. There is this Lutheran book of simplified hymns for sale. Here's a sample from it. It looks like there are several volumes.
4. Your heading in the right direction. Keep it up and good luck.

[JoelHof]

Thank you for the quick responses. All good. I am getting close to 57 and I'll never be "old" as long as I keep learning new things.

LCMS is Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Many of the hymns are pretty standard across multiple denominations I think.

Laughing here. A Romanian friend of mine always used to say, "Joel, you complicate yourself!" Too funny.

Not that I'm using these terms properly but by mechanics I'm referring to musical notation, fingering, time signatures, key, etc. Technique would be, posture, hand/wrist position, playing legato, pedal technique such as heels together, using the inside of the foot, not looking, etc. I read a few things regarding these matters and maybe a video of myself will help till I can get some kind of "formal" training, even if it never comes to that.

Scales are something I really need to learn and work on. I'm aware of that, but didn't realize the importance. Thank you. I'll make that a priority along with other exercises for my left hand coordination and independence, with a little pedal work thrown in.

There are other "non-hymn songs" that I'm interested in playing but for now I'm trying to focus on the one style that I love just hearing (especially with Hauptwerk involved). I also write my own pieces but "play" them through midi. They are more synth oriented, but having an organ now with midi, 3 manuals and pedals, I can actually play them. Well, I'll be able to when I get good enough.

On the French Horn, I've just always loved that sound. The baritone had a similar tone obviously lower, but the French Horn, ear candy to me ... Like you said, if you were "down the road", I might take you up on your offers, but ... I have enough on my plate for now.

Thank you all for the encouragement and the tips for moving forward. Thanks for the links. I'll take a look at those. Acquiring this organ was my motivation to kick my learning to play into high gear instead dabbling as I have been over the years. I'll continue with my practice of exercises and the method book I have, get working on my scales, and see if I can find some easier "happy work". It is nice when it comes together. Can't get to the top of the ladder before you climb the lower rungs first, huh?

[andijah]

Yes, play scales - learn the fingerings and play around with scales and chord arpeggios. And chords and triads in all variations, e.g. c-e-g, e-g-c, g-c-e and so on.

But: don't do Hanon. These "etudes" won't teach you any helpful technical skills.

Instead: listen while you play. Try different articulation (legato, non-legato...) and speed or rhythmical variations. For example, play the first two notes of the scale slow and the next two notes fast etc. - all kinds of variations possible.

[VaPipeorgantuner]

best advice - find a teacher that is experienced with beginner students.

I started (many more years ago that I will admit to) using the pointer system books, but advanced to another method series because pointer system is limited in what you will learn.

if you don't own one, get a metronome...learn to keep a really steady beat. The best way to learn music is to do SLOW practice. How slow?, he asked...slow enough that you can play whatever part you can without mistakes multiple times thru. Once you can play a piece (or a part) mistake free at the slow speed, set the speed up a few beats per minute and again play thru till you can repeat it several times mistake free. As you get faster, you may find that fingerings that work at a very slow speed get awkward as you go faster...at this point you need to adapt.

Hanon exercises are designed to increase finger dexterity and independence as they become more advanced. These also need to be done with a metronome to have the most effect.

Practice different touches as you work thru the hanon (legato, semi-detached, staccato) in various combinations, this will help with finger dexterity. LISTEN to the difference in the sounds, they are all useful tools as you advance.

keep your hands and arms RELAXED, as tension is a technique killer. Don't use an overly 'arched' finger position as this sets up tension.

Rick in VA

[crapwonk]

if you don't own one, get a metronome...

Rick in VA

If you have a smart phone, there are dozens of free metronome apps (based on a fast look at the Android Play Store).

[KC9UDX]

Per your "don't look" comment, don't. Don't look at the pedals, don't look at your feet. But also, don't look at the keyboards and don't look at your fingers! This is a huge mistake that many people make.

Anyone can learn to play without looking, and it's very beneficial to do so. Having to look is crippling.

Sure you'll have to look once in a while at first. But the sooner you can get away from this the better.

[JoelHof]

Thank you all for the excellent feedback. You have all helped me with the technique question I had originally and given me clear direction.

A quick update: I've been working considerably on my scales, and chords as well, both hands. A little with arpeggios with the chord triads and their respective inversions and what not. My bass clef reading is getting much faster and I'm gaining left hand coordination and independence slowly but surely thanks to the scales and chord work/exercises.

I'm liking the "Modern Organist". It's an off shoot of the pointer system and it's definitely helping me with bass clef reading and left hand chord use, along with rudimentary pedal as well. It's progressing into more difficult playing with the left hand which is good for my coordination practice. I'm cruising rather quickly through the lessons and it's nice to actually be able to play something with all appendages in sync. It's kind of comical when I use the solo manual and put on some strings and flute sounds. Throw in a little improv and tempo variation, velocity and aftertouch expression ... With feeling ... Heh heh heh. It helps me relax and "get into it" in a more "flowing" manner. A lot of fun.

I also found in the organ song books I picked up at the local thrift shop a few hymn arrangements that are barely within my level and I'm working on those. They are progressing nicely, but still a little out of my coordination level. I am improving though and they are within reach. Hauptwerk and midi is a beautiful thing!

I do keep my tempo in-check when I start learning a new song or exercise, and play slowly until I get it right. I use the "drums" section on the organ as a metronome with a simple cymbal 4/4 or 3/4 beat to keep a steady tempo. And I don't look at my feet or my hands while playing, well rarely. My biggest issue I think is to make sure I use the right finger on the right notes. For example I have a tendency to use my 2nd or 3rd and 4th fingers, instead of my 3rd and 5th with triads. Or starting specific solo phrases with my 2nd instead of 3rd. Consciously working on that.

Another big issue would be relaxing. My right hand is on track. Fingers, hand, wrist, elbow motion fairly fluid and doing what they are supposed to be doing, but my left hand ... Pretty rigid, and I'm finding my left elbow tucked tightly against my ribs sometimes when I'm not paying attention. What the heck is that all about?!?

Pedal playing coming along. I don't have organ shoes but have found my moccasin slippers work quite well (except no heel, but that's way down the road). They have a fairly thick but flexible sole and I can just barely feel the pedals through them. Working on my technique to keep my feet lightly in contact at all time and using the inside of my foot. Left only for now, but coming along nicely.

Either way, enjoying this immensely and happy with my progress so far. Just need time. Slowly but surely. Who says ya can't teach an old dog new tricks. Again, I thank you all for the excellent feedback and encouragement.

Joel