Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?

[Guest]

I can 'doodle' a bit at the end of the hymn to fill in for the offertory and I can do free improvisation without any formal structure (and sometimes tonality!). But I have always been envious and in awe of organists who can improvise on a melody and make it a whole suite - Pierre Cochereau for example. it seems to me the French are good improvisers.
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Are there any books out there on organ improvisation?</p>

What advice would you give on improvising?</p>

Are there any do's and don'ts?</p>

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I would very much like to improve on this area and would appreciate some advice.
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[soubasse32]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



Any do's and dont's?</P>


Yes - once you've made your point, it is best to stop. [] In other words, it is good to have a structure in mind before you start, and stick to that plan. Otherwise, you might get caught up in the sound of what you are playing and lose sight of the structure- mindless meandering often results. That is why so many organ improvisations are tedious.</P>


Here are a few excellent articles to help you get started: http://www.christarakich.com/articles.htm</P>

[Clarion]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?

[quote user="Choirmaster"] Are there any books out there on organ improvisation?


What advice would you give on improvising?</P>


Are there any do's and don'ts? [/quote]</P>
<P mce_keep="true">Over the years, I've learned to be content with doingwhat I've naturally been endowed to do! From even before I was born, my mind started to be permanently wired for the kind of music I had been accustomed to hearing, from thewomb!</P>
<P mce_keep="true">Having a distant grudging respect for jazz, I acquired a whole lot of books on jazz theory. The entire project was doomed to total failure from inception! Having been wired liturgically, I could nomore play jazz than fly!</P>
<P mce_keep="true">BorisBrott,conductor of the HamiltonSymphony Orchestra, was one day playing a composition he had never before heard. Perplexed by the experience, he was informed that this was thepiece his mother practiced for a number of months while he was still in the womb!!</P>
<P mce_keep="true">For anyone who has studied the psychology of music and the development neural synaptic responses; it has pretty much been determined that if you don't start your musical training by age3, you really don't have a hope!!</P>

[soubasse32]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



[quote user="Clarion"]For anyone who has studied the psychology of music and the development neural synaptic responses; it has pretty much been determined that if you don't start your musical training by age3, you really don't have a hope!![/quote]</P>


[8-)]</P>


Not sure what that has to do with improvisation, or why you might want to dissuade someone from learning how to do it... It can be learned by anyone, after all.</P>


I didn't begin my studies before I was born[:|] nor had I started by the age of three. But I am a successfulmusician nevertheless.</P>


[quote user="Clarion"]Over the years, I've learned to be content with doingwhat I've naturally been endowed to do! [/quote]</P>


The difference for me, is that I've never been content. I'm always striving to achieve... todo better.</P>

[jbird604]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



Perhaps one of the best aids to learning improvisation is the discipline of learning to play non-improvised music -- structured pieces by the gifted composers as well as inspiring improvisational-style hymn settings, etc.</P>


Seems to me that getting this concept of outline and structure into one's mind aids in taking a theme and creating useful and interesting variations. I know that the more I listen to what others have done the better I become at improvising, particularly ad hoc improvisation when needed in a service.</P>


So I'd advise listening to CD's and live performances by organists who improvise well, along with buyingmusic and taking the time to learn new pieces.</P>


Somewhere I've heard it said that a preacher should "study himself full, pray himself hot, then get in the pulpit and just let go" -- or something to that effect. Perhaps there is a corollary for organists.</P>


John</P>
<P mce_keep="true"></P>

[nullogik]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



I too would like to make the leap from hymn-like improvisation (basic chord progressions etc.) to more eccentric stuff. I would love to be able to improvise like some of the French greats.</p>

I personally think it takes years of "messing around" on the keyboard and building up in your mind of an "ideas database" (exciting chord progressions, odds and ends you collect from other pieces etc.). Then eventually you'd be able to stitch these individual ideas into a complete piece that sounds mightly impressive and original.
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If I like something that someone else has done, I always note the idea used and try and incorporate it into my own improvisations in my own style. So if I see something that Bach has done which I like, I'll note it down and try and use it.</p>

But for me there is nothing like sitting down at a keyboard and trying out random stuff. Thats how I learnt to improvise - granted it may sound awful in the beginning but it soon gets a lot better as you get the hang of where chords and notes should go and in which order.
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[soubasse32]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



The comments about observing techniques of other composers reminds me ofanother technique I've tried:</P>


I might take something like a Mozart piano sonata, and cover up either the right hand part or the left hand part.</P>


As you read the visible part on the page, it is up to you to make up something to fit the missing part.</P>


This sometimes works best with compositions that are familiar, and sometimes it works best with unfamiliar ones.</P>


You have to experiment - it can be a fun exercise. []</P>

[steverequiem]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



One of the biggest hurdles for me to get past was trying to analyzewhat I'mplaying and whereI'm going during the improvisation. You need to have a gameplan going in, but I've found my improvisations to be much more pleasing when I more or less let it happen. When you think too much, you're in danger of having your improv turn into a boring, predictable I-IV-V-I excercise. Use interesting rhythms and stop combinations; never drone on with 8-4' principles and flutes.</P>


I would also recommend recording your improvs. When I did my audition tape for this year's improvisation competition, I came off the organ bench thinking it was the most horrible thing I ever did. After listening to the tape though, I noticed many parts that were really exciting, and I had to go back to the organ and try and recreate them.</P>


While it's fun to sit at the organ and just play around, try setting specific goals for your improvs. Take a hymn tune and try to make a partita with variations from it. The first attempt will most likely be rubbish. But keep repeating, and you'll be amazed at how much you can improve on it. And most importantly, DON'T STOP IN THE MIDDLE OF AN IMPROVISATION.</P>


I really think improvisation is something that needlessly intimidates a lot of organists, who either don't even attempt it or keep it confined to doodling while people get their bread and wine. Take a chance - jot down aninteresting but simpletheme and improvise a duo for the prelude, or a short toccata for the postlude. 95% of my preludes and postludes now are improvisations based on a hymn we've sung that service, and the congregation seems to get a good kick out of it.</P>

[tumult_in_the_praetorium]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



Experimentation - and lots of it...

Although I am by no means a brilliant improviser, I tend to follow some guidelines of my own.

- As mentioned above by SteveRequiem, attempting to make a partita from a hymn tune or chant is great practice. Then you can try omitting the tune itself from an improvised variation - sing the hymn tune (either aloud or in your head) and attempt to improvise around it. Have a listen to Dupre's Variations sur un Noel - you will notice that he does not explicitly state the theme in variations 2, 5, 7 or 9. Although this was not an improvised work, it displays the possibilities at your disposal.

- I often experiment with different musical forms - the sonata, toccata, scherzo, chorale prelude, passacaglia, etc. I attempt to create a general idea in my head of what I am seeking to do with the work beforehand - thinking about tempi, ornamentation, suitable registrations and the suchlike.For example, if I'm improvising a 'bewitched' scherzo for example, I might employ some unusual rhythms, dissonant harmonies, using lots of mutation stops, and so on.

- Try not to get into habits. I like my improvisations to be fresh, and too often have I found them sounding somewhat the same. Experimenting and getting new musical ideas helps.

- Feel the music! Put everything out of your head. I think back to high school when I studied theatre arts and we looked at a certain man known as Constantin Stanislavski. He created an idea of 'emotional memory' - if we seek to convey a certain emotion to others (in his case through stage acting, in ours, through musical improvisation) we must reflect upon a time in which we have felt a similar emotion to the one we wish to convey. While this may sound extreme, I have been able to create some deeply profound improvisations from a simple few minutes reflection before beginning to play as opposed to bashing away and having no idea of what I'm improvising or where I'm going.

Maybe I'm talking absolute rubbish. It works for me, however.

Thanks for those resources, Soubasse32 - they're a great help to me!
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[steverequiem]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?

Good tips above as well, especially the part about Dupre. Variation #2 is probably my favorite. While the melody is not specifically stated, it is very much implied through the harmonies he uses, which you can also use in your improvisations. An easy one is the melody for "O come emmanuel"; have your left and right hands play triplets in 6ths, with the pedals changing every few bars. The first few times, have the first note of each triplet sequence be the note of the melody. After a while, you'll find you no longer need to have those melody notes in your playing as you find ways of keeping the harmony intact. I think this makes sense - it's kinda hard describing it in a text editor:P

[tumult_in_the_praetorium]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?

[quote user="steverequiem"] I think this makes sense - it's kinda hard describing it in a text editor:P[/quote]

So true!

I think about how much easier it would beto demonstrate if we were all sat at the console...

[steverequiem]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?

Only one thing we can do then - Organ Forum Meetup!

[Guest]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



Thank-you all for your advice. There are some useful resources that I will try and use.</p>

I will definately try this one out:</p>(The comments about observing techniques of other composers reminds me ofanother technique I've tried:


I might take something like a Mozart piano sonata, and cover up either the right hand part or the left hand part.</p>


As you read the visible part on the page, it is up to you to make up something to fit the missing part.</p>


This sometimes works best with compositions that are familiar, and sometimes it works best with unfamiliar ones.)i</p>

I love fun games[]</p>


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[soubasse32]

Re: Organ improvisation - can you do it? How do you do it?



[off-topic]</P>


[quote user="steverequiem"]Only one thing we can do then - Organ Forum Meetup![/quote]</P>


Which brings up something I've been pondering for a few days - I'll create a new thread, which can be found here:</P>


http://organforum.com/forums/thread/53011.aspx</P>

[Guest]

Improvisation is a very worthwhile topic to discuss. There are numerous books on the subject, all of which have a different approach and emphasis. I personally do not think that any one volume is sufficient in itself and would recommend reading through a number of them and selecting some ideas from each. I have a website on the subject with various approaches and materials as well as recordings of improvisations in varying styles. I hope that this proves to be of some interest and practical use. www.organimprovisation.net