Ebay Classic organs

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Name this hymn

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Name this hymn

    I can remember myriad things but, for the life of me, I cannot remember the name of this very well known hymn tune:


    Attached Files
    -------

    Hammond M-102 #21000.
    Leslie 147 #F7453.
    Hammond S-6 #72421

  • #2
    The tune is "Lobe den Herren" sung, at least in the UK to the words "Praise to the Lord, the Almighty, the King of creation".

    I have sung this in German at a wedding and I have to say the German words fit the metre of the tune much better than the English translation does.

    Comment


    • #3
      Of course! Thanks.

      Yes, translations often have to be really squeezed into the meter, sometimes with rather bizarre choices.

      German here. It does ride on the meter very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSSkG0oSwcI
      Last edited by gtc; 05-03-2021, 06:07 AM.
      -------

      Hammond M-102 #21000.
      Leslie 147 #F7453.
      Hammond S-6 #72421

      Comment


      • myorgan
        myorgan commented
        Editing a comment
        GTC,

        I believe the purpose of the chorale prelude is to introduce the hymn, and to lead into the first verse of the hymn. A chorale prelude is supposed to maintain the same tempo as the hymn. Peterborough, et al. are correct, in that either the chorale prelude was too fast or the hymn too slow.

        I've actually written and used a chorale prelude for this hymn, and there is certainly no mystery which hymn it is–or the tempo to be used.

        Michael

      • Philip Powell
        Philip Powell commented
        Editing a comment
        I think when a hymn is very, very well known (such as this one) an intro can be a little "off-topic" and the tempo can change a bit but this tempo is just way too fast.

      • gtc
        gtc commented
        Editing a comment
        @myorgan: I agree, but as I mentioned maybe that congregation is used to that organist's manner of operation. "Oh, there he goes again riffing on something. The hymn will begin any time now."

        Meanwhile, since I asked the question, I can't get that hymn's tune out of my head.

    • #4
      I don't think the tempo is too fast, but the breaks between the verses are too short.

      Comment


      • #5
        Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
        I don't think the tempo is too fast, but the breaks between the verses are too short.
        He has to make up the time lost with his "prelude".
        -------

        Hammond M-102 #21000.
        Leslie 147 #F7453.
        Hammond S-6 #72421

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
          I don't think the tempo is too fast, but the breaks between the verses are too short.
          David, my first organ teacher said that the breaks after the introduction and between each stanza should always be consistent and in rhythm. That was good advice and it trains the congregation to know when to begin singing. Also, do not ritard at the end of each stanza.
          Bill

          My home organ: Content M5800 as a midi controller for Hauptwerk

          Comment


          • #7
            It is helpful to understand a few things about German Protestant hymn-singing culture.

            1) This is the Thomaskirche, Leipzig, one of the shrines of German Protestant music-making. They know what they're doing.
            2) Any German Protestant congregation would know what to sing even if you only told them this hymn's first three words. They would have had that confirmed with the first 5 or 6 notes of the organ prelude, which are treated imitatively so you hear it again and again. They don't need anything more.
            3) Since "Lobe den Herren" is one of the most well-known hymns from this tradition, they need even less 'coaching' from the organ.
            4) Any German Protestant congregation already knows how fast it should be sung, regardless of the tempo of the prelude.
            5) The congregation will benefit from being given an initial starting pitch. In fact, if the organist had played ONLY the starting note, and then stopped altogether, the congregation would have been fine, once the first few words were out of their mouths. They do know what they're doing, but they do appreciate all starting in the same key. (smile)
            6) The spaces between the stanzas are actually well-measured. Just feel the downbeats. Because of the resonance of the room, the space is appropriate.
            7) The conductor is only for the choir, which sang two of the verses. It is unlikely that the conductor would have even raised his arms during the congregational verses. The organist was leading the congregational singing. At 3:00, at the end of the second choir verse, the conductor drops his arms and looks down at his score. Once the choir stops, he's done.

            ----- To be sure, I can't speak for the whole of German Protestant hymn-singing, and I'm sure there are situations where the pianist/organist is at a more modest skill level, and where the introduction to the hymn is indeed more of a playover than a more involved prelude as you hear in the video.

            Some other things to note:
            - People sit to sing. You'll see that the pewback in front of each person has a built-in book rack. These racks would normally be where you put your hymnbook so you don't have to hold it while you sing.
            - People are singing from (funeral) leaflets. There are no hymnbooks in front of them and there are no numbers on the hymn boards.
            - This particular funeral was for Kurt Masur, Kapellmeister of the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra and music director of the New York Philharmonic. You can bet that the congregation knew a thing or two about music!

            Acoustics - I know that in my own early experience, the Canadian churches had such dry acoustics that at first, I didn't really know what to do when I came to a live acoustic.

            North American congregations are used to playovers (rather than preludes), mostly because of conditioning, not because they couldn't do this. In my own congregation, when we were still doing in-person worship, I began to incorporate more creative hymn introductions - on a maximum of one hymn per Sunday. I'd choose the most familiar hymn of the service, where we all knew how it should go just from reading the title, similar to the German congregation and "Lobe den Herren." Then I'd do an introduction that involved a change of meter or tempo to do something 'delightful' with the tune. It brought smiles to people's faces. They already loved the hymn - this special treatment add something new which they appreciated. When they began singing, we were all together on the meter (as written) and the tempo (as expected.) I did practice this with the choir beforehand. The first couple times were only slightly off, but they all caught on very quickly.

            I encountered something similar with the singing of a refrain between spoken verses of responsorial Psalms. Once they had the refrain, they didn't need a full introduction each time it returned. They didn't even need a starting note. I just left a space to breathe after the last word of the Psalm verse, then we all started together. Their pitch memory was good enough for that short time. I once did a joint service with another organist who said that their congregation needs the full playover EACH TIME before they sing the refrain. I just said that I don't do it that way, and I didn't for the service. They were fine. The problem was that the other organist didn't trust their own congregation to be as skilled as they were.

            There is also a bit of a 'cult of the conductor' in many North American churches, where the choir conductor or song leader feels it necessary to conduct the congregation. I know that some will differ with me here, that's okay. There are many ways to accomplish this. I accept this in settings where the song leader, the pianist and/or organist are all on a similar level of skill or experience. But in settings where there are highly-skilled organists, they don't need a go-between. In my own experience, that go-between has done more to hinder congregational singing than to help it.
            Last edited by regeron; 05-05-2021, 11:34 AM.

            Comment


            • #8
              Thank you for this excellent post, Regeron. It made me go back and listen to the whole hymn instead of just the little bit I'd sampled before.

              I hadn't previously scrolled down to see what the occasion was, but I think the performance of this hymn was very effective and indeed moving. I liked the singing of 2 verses by the choir - bright and fresh sounding. I was surprised that they sang the tune with a different rhythm at the ends of lines.

              I also liked the organ playing, although I didn't find the third verse particularly successful - although I couldn't really hear what was going on above the tune in the pedals. The gaps between verses were fine for me.

              Although I really liked the prelude I still don't see why it couldn't have been at the same speed as the hymn. It still seems silly (and unnecessary - the prelude could have been slower) to me but that's obviously their way of doing things. I rarely do introductions to hymns - it's not really a tradition in the UK. I do it on special occasions and certainly get appreciative comments when I do. I think their effectiveness is probably in inverse proportion to their frequency. I used to do it more often when I played in a church with a larger organ. but I rarely improvised them.

              I was surprised at the tempo of the hymn, actually. I thought that Lutherans traditionally sang their chorales very slowly - perhaps that's just anecdotal evidence? This was quite fast.

              Comment


              • #9
                Originally posted by Peterboroughdiapason View Post
                I thought that Lutherans traditionally sang their chorales very slowly - perhaps that's just anecdotal evidence? This was quite fast.
                It depends on the hymn and, to be honest, also on the skills of the organist. But this particular hymn is joyful and needs a bit of tempo.

                In our area, the hymns in Catholic churches are often sung a lot slower than a protestant organist would expect.

                Regarding the prelude, it is actually good practice to have the same metrum as for the hymn that follows. At least that's what I was taught and I'd guess this is still taught at least on the basic levels.

                Comment


                • davidecasteel
                  davidecasteel commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I remember when Catholic congregations did not sing Hymns. I think it started in the 1980s, the Catholics having noticed (after 2000 years) that congregational singing was popular. Their first Hymnal only showed the melody line--no 4-part notation; the PTB were afraid that seeing all those notes would scare off the congregants.

                • gtc
                  gtc commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @David ... reminds me ... I'll create a thread on that topic.

                • myorgan
                  myorgan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  David,

                  I have to tell you, you should hear some of the children's masses I play for. Those kids can (& do) sing!!! It's worth attending just to hear it. I can't wait until the Covid singing restrictions are over!

                  Michael

              • #10
                I think the English translation suggests a more stately tempo than perhaps the German words do. The English Hymnal (1906) has the tempo (suggested by Vaughan Williams) of minim (half note) = 80. These days we play it faster, of course, and some play it much faster with a one-in-a-bar feel.

                With a large congregation I like a speed something like this: Hymn - Praise to the Lord, the Almighty - YouTube
                Feeble congregational singing but this is a ceremonial occasion with a cathedral full of unaccustomed churchgoers. Nice last verse at 2.40, though.

                Of course, there's always this if you prefer:
                Praise to the Lord, the Almighty (Nockels, Hymn with Lyrics, Contemporary) - YouTube

                Comment


                • davidecasteel
                  davidecasteel commented
                  Editing a comment
                  The tempo is greatly dependent on the size of the worship space and its liveliness. One cannot expect to play a Hymn at the same speed inside a cathedral with 4-7 seconds reverberation as might be done in a small rural church that is dead as a doornail. Your first example is probably about as fast as practical in that space. The second is about the speed I would take it. Anywhere in between would be acceptable.

                • Peterboroughdiapason
                  Peterboroughdiapason commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I put the 2nd example in as a joke - not the hymn as far as I'm concerned since the harmonies have been obliterated. Mind you, I could only bear to listen to a few bars.

                • myorgan
                  myorgan commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Peterborough,

                  I made it to the third line, then had to call it quits when the vocalist sang, Ho my soul....! My soul isn't a "ho!"

                  Michael
              Working...
              X