Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

For the Millionth Time

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Rock & Roll: For the Millionth Time

    Anybody know where I can find a correct transcription of Boston's Foreplay as performed in the original recording (not the new expanded intro)? Somebody has got to know.

    I got the feeling my copy wasn't quite right, so I Google some videos just to find one of the worst versions of it at the top of the list, and thought to ask some people who may have been there/ done that and knows exactly where to look now.

    It is really hard to pick out the organ from all the guitar and cymbal noise. Transcribe! Is one heck of a great tool for this in combination with an organ, but still it's just so difficult and time consuming.
    Allen 530A

    #2
    I've seen some amazing Youtube covers of this but for some reason they keep missing a few notes in the chord/lick progression right before the vocals come in that also continues through the first verse.

    Comment


      #3
      I've seen some amazing Youtube covers of this but for some reason they keep missing a few notes in the chord/lick progression right before the vocals come in that also continues through the first verse.

      Comment


        #4
        I'm starting to go through some live videos, and I'm finally making some progress... maybe. The only problem is how it is hard to sufficiently slow down such fast music.
        Last edited by Nutball; 03-08-2019, 10:51 PM.
        Allen 530A

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Nutball View Post
          I'm starting to go through some live videos, and I'm finally making some progress. The only problem is how it is hard to sufficiently slow down such fast music...maybe

          You can do the slow-down in Audacity as well as attempt to keep the track in the same key.

          You might have to do the piece in segments and make separate files so that you're only dealing with sections of patterns.

          It would be labor intensive but nothing ventured...

          Referring to the original often, helps.

          Saw a thread on this song, claiming TS did not play the guitar solo. Whether he did or not, the person making the claim used live footage of the song's performance as a reference.

          Of course TS had to play the organ parts which means Barry G had to play the guitar parts for the live shows.








          Comment


            #6
            The problem I have is how distorted the organ is in the original recording if nothing else other than loud percussion and guitar sounds drowning it out. The live recordings help because the organ is usually louder, but 1) the other instruments still drown it, 2) there may be some sort of interference, or intentional/unintentional echo/reverb effect that would hide or suggest the same note twice in a row, 3) being a live performance especially ones made many years later; the notes could have changed some. Transcribe! allows 20% playback speed which is good enough, youtube has 25%. The only thing that would make Transcribe! better would be a voice filter to filter out just the organ.

            TS supposedly played every instrument and combined the recordings to get exactly what he wanted, my style of doing things. Someone else sang though. But yea, he put down his guitar to play organ at live shows.
            Allen 530A

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nutball View Post
              The problem I have is how distorted the organ is in the original recording if nothing else other than loud percussion and guitar sounds drowning it out.
              Well this might help!



              Comment


                #8
                So, a guitar plays the organ melody too? Maybe that's why I was hearing some strange echos. It was a mismatch in the exact moment the notes were played. That would also explain my perceived change in registration which I thought I heard, but couldn't prove upon close inspection back when I was trying to figure out the registration. I'm using 8' Gedeckt, 4' koppel flote, and 2-2/3 nasat.

                That video helps confirm how I thought it went.
                Allen 530A

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Nutball View Post
                  That video helps confirm how I thought it went.
                  Yeah it should as it's the actual organ tracks on the original song played by TS. If you listen to the organ track by itself often enough and then listen to the whole song, it will become more apparent on how the arrangement went.

                  I saw them perform this song in the 70's.

                  TS had a chest of pipes that got lowered from the upper scaffolding that was attached by hoses to the stage floor.

                  The NY Times article below that smacked of taking pot shots at genius while laying the ground work for idiocracy:



                  • By JON PARELES JUNE 10, 1995



                  Songs of Excess and Heroism, With a Dash of Bach on the Organ Boston Jones Beach Theater

                  Boston may be the only rock band ever to tour with a full pipe organ. On Tuesday night, Tom Scholz sat down to an elaborate console, and rank upon rank of organ pipes heaved into view. He played the opening of Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor, missing a note, followed by a sequence of rich-sounding but aimless chords. The impressive display of equipment was pointless.

                  But that's Boston's style. After spending years layering instruments on tape, on Boston's 1976 debut album Mr. Scholz came up with a sound that simultaneously blared and resonated. Playing guitars, he combined Doobie Brothers strumming, Who power chords and Allman Brothers twin-guitar leads with marchlike tempos; Brad Delp, repeatedly overdubbed, added lead and high harmony vocals. The formula's familiarity carried follow-up albums in 1978 and 1986; last year's "Walk On" (MCA), with Fran Cosmo replacing Mr. Delp, was less popular. On Tuesday, Mr. Delp shared vocals with Mr. Cosmo, who took over, Mr. Delp said, for "the really tough high parts."

                  The songs are monolithic: big anthems that conflate excess with heroism as they take up basic rock concerns, like romance and partying, or preach moderation: "You don't have to run that hard to get where we can go." The new band, which wielded up to four guitars, virtually reproduced the albums; it tried to add variety with excursions into bar-band blues, Hammond organ solos by Mr. Scholz, and a duet for Mr. Scholz on electric piano and Mr. Delp, which barely reduced the bombast. Long before the two-and-a-half hour show ended, Boston ran out of hits. JON PARELES
                  Last edited by Goff; 03-09-2019, 08:02 PM.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I just hadn't thought of that game. If anyone should have it right it should be that game, and it is matching up pretty well logically and to what I hear. Some transcriptions are pretty wild throwing logic out and relying on personal perception. Then again, sometimes illogical note orders are used, and it's best to carefully check to see what the notes really are.
                    Allen 530A

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Nutball View Post
                      I just hadn't thought of that game. If anyone should have it right it should be that game, and it is matching up pretty well logically and to what I hear. Some transcriptions are pretty wild throwing logic out and relying on personal perception. Then again, sometimes illogical note orders are used, and it's best to carefully check to see what the notes really are.
                      Many producers have the ability to hear all the parts of the song at the same time as the song plays.

                      Song construction takes on a mixture of logic and the illogical. It's what makes one take notice.

                      The blue note in jazz bending traditional formality.

                      A mixture of synchronicity and serendipity.

                      Nothing is ever so purposeful as we imagine.

                      I'm willing to bet not even TS can play all the notes he played on the original track and will miss a few.


                      Hear and see TS play his @$$ off:



                      As an aside, music is more than straight notes tuned to A-440.

                      There are those who dabble in microtones.

                      We were introduced to that reality here:



                      Here is a clip on poly-chromatic music:

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I wouldn't mind quarter steps crammed between the keys on a normal keyboard
                        Allen 530A

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I found an artifact that stands out in a way that makes it almost sound like chords are being played at the louder parts shortly before the descending melody but after the part where chords really are played. It just occurred to me it could be caused by a spring reverb unit selectively amplifying or muting the reverb of certain notes just long enough that they string together almost like a chord.

                          I'd say around half of youtubers play that part with chords when it definitely isn't, and I looked closely at this part to see if it is an extra part being played, but I noticed these notes that were standing out lined up with the melody, but with an unusually long sustain. Anybody know if F4 & Ab4 tend to linger longer than other notes with a hammond reverb unit?
                          Allen 530A

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I finally got it all figured out, just finished. Haven't found a version written, or on youtube as accurate. I even figured out the mystery of the registration change while deciphering the last few notes. It really does get brighter during the loud parts, so using the 8' & 4' principal octaves helps to simulate that brighter sound over the quieter 8', 4', & 2-2/3' flutes. I had read where others, like me, thought there was a change, but couldn't ever really match it well enough to confirm. I wouldn't say I matched it having a different organ, but I know it really does change.
                            Allen 530A

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You can tell that many that cover this on U2b are doing the same mistake they read on the transcription. Rather than using their ears, they leaned on the transcription.

                              Another thing to consider, whether the parts were played top to bottom in one take or were they punched-in, is something to ponder.

                              Spring reverb? Did TS rely on spring reverb?

                              Wouldn't it be plate like an EMT if he had that in his studio?
                              This guy was all about studio-level gear plugged-in unorthodox ways.

                              Through Rockman, (sold to Dunlop in the mid -90's) TS helped pioneer the use of software.

                              Aren't we glad this guy's MIT brain was put to good use?

                              Good Tom Hunting???

                              Naaaaaaaaaaah!!!
                              Click image for larger version

Name:	rocket6tomscholz-yjISbpoTZkoUKqLO4HQVBa6ACMY4nqT0.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	102.9 KB
ID:	657316

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X