What's the big deal about tracker organs?

[davidecasteel]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



[quote user="davet753"]Tracker organs are wonderful as historic artifacts, expensive toys, or perhaps concert instruments......for weekly use in a church setting, I have always found them to be impractical.[/quote]One of the largest UMC churches in Dallas (HPUMC) has a tracker instrument and they appear to be quite satisfied with it. Our former choir director has substitute-played at that church and he was very disappointed that our new Klais instrument has electric slider chest and key action. (It is possible to add tracker key action later, if we want to.)

David

[Tony Pipe Milwaukee]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

What about bellows and choir boys to pump them?

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

[quote user="Tony Milwaukee"]


Bach had a tracker organ.

That's what I have been told and that is what makes tracker organs a big deal.

Bach also didn't have an AGO pedal board. He also didn't have an electric blower, but manual bellows. The same people who advocate tracker organs, because Bach had one, don't advocate bellows and flat pedal boards.

[/quote]

Bach also rode from point A to point B (when not actually on foot) by means of a horse-drawn conveyance of some sort or other, but I don't see tracker enthusiasts foregoing the benefits of the internal combustion engine.

The people advocating tracker organs may not advocate flat pedal boards, but it would appear that most of today's builders who specialize in trackers also provide flat pedal boards. I believe it has something to do with the construction of the trackers.

[Tony Pipe Milwaukee]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



Bach had a tracker organ.

That's what I have been told and that is what makes tracker organs a big deal.

Bach also didn't have an AGO pedal board. He also didn't have an electric blower, but manual bellows. The same people who advocate tracker organs, because Bach had one, don't advocate bellows and flat pedal boards.

[m&m's]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

I did play several numbers on the Round Lake Ferris organ this past weekend, and if I never play another tracker organ in my life, It's fine with me. I know that the organ is old, and could use some work, but no matter how good the tracker touch is, you cannot properly hear the organ at the console. You simply are too close to it, and the sound goes over you. It was a relief to get back to my church organ later in the week-roughly same size organ, but with electric action, console away from the chambers, a real swell pedal (not hitch-down!), some unification-hence, a few more stops, etc.

[davet753]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

Tracker organs are wonderful as historic artifacts, expensive toys, or perhaps concert instruments......for weekly use in a church setting, I have always found them to be impractical.

[Kiwithrottlejockey]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



Another large tracker-action concert hall organ downunder is in Christchurch Town Hall in New Zealand.

The organ has a comprehensive website that you can lose yourself in for manyhours....

http://www.nzorgan.com/

I have never played this instrument myself (it was built by Reiger Orgelbau of Austria) but I know plenty of organists who have played it and they all have plenty of praise for the organ.

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



I suggest that anybody who is skeptical about the benefits of a well-engineered tracker key action ought to visit the organ loft at St. Mark's Cathedral, in Seattle, and arrange with Dr. Butler to try the Flentrop (/Fritts) therein.

The touch is indescribably delicate, and yes, even a ham-handed beginner like myself can, with a nice fluffy flute drawn, easily vary the attack transients from "spitting" to "flatting," and a whole gamut in between. And my understanding is that much of that sensitivity is the result of Paul Fritts re-engineering the key action (most notably, converting it to "suspended").

Yes, there are trackers in which the degree of control is significantly less, and in some cases practically (or even completely) nonexistent, but there are also masterpieces like the aforementioned Flentrop.

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



Concerning organs in concert halls.I think they're often installed to be a visual focal point for the audience. The grander, the better.

A practical problem of blending a concert organ with orchestra is the issue of tuning. Unless a concert hall's temperature can remain stable the pitch of the organ will change during the course of a performance--sometimes with members of the orchestra casting menacing glances at the organist--as if it were somehow in the organists power to make a quick tuning adjustment.

I remember being asked to supply a pump organ (a melodian) for a Toronto Symphony production of a Mohler piece. I assured the technician in charge of instrument procurement and piano tuning (?) that Mohlers piece demanded a Harmonium--something entirely different and something I could not lay my hands on at that time in Toronto. He said the only person that might know the difference between the two instruments would be the conductor--Davis. I produced a reed organ as asked and was about to attempt tuning it when I was told not to bother--"no one would notice the difference". I suggested they'd have been better off with a digital keyboard that could reproduce a harmonium--"oh no---no electronic instruments" (!).....

That was in Roy Thompson Hall which is climate controlled and has a fair sized 4m G. Kney organ as mentioned elsewhere in this thread. The building has since been overhauled and re-engineered to correct some acoustical problems. I have not been back to see/hear the results. It was very poor for an organ that's for certain. 

[AwfulClyde]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



As a listener, I will cast my vote for the sound of an organ built with slider wind chests. I liked SB32's description of the effect of a slider chest on the speech of pipes a couple of posts earlier, my feelings exactly! While I love hearing some of the surviving big old Austins, such as the Kochmar in Portland, ME. There is a certain hardness, or sterility to the sound of an instrument with those huge "walk in" wind chests, that I find tiring, I guess the wind is just too stable for my ears.

In considering the long term cost and maintainability of a new organ with electric action, I feel the slider chest with EP or direct lectric pull downs may be a better alternative to a new organ using Pitman/EP chests. Just my 2 cents, others mileage may vary[*-)]

Regards to All,

Pete

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



I know what you mean. I think.

Years ago I installed a used 1975 Casavant in a church and the organ was completely exposed and unchanged from its previous deployment. The organ had slider chests though, with electric pulldowns, which for Casavant was unusual--at least in my part of N.A.. It was all wired up to a standard run of the mill detached 2m. Casavant console with tilt tabs.

The specification of the organ was typical of the period and I'd heard many E.P. Casavant's built around the same time. The pipe work was no different from what Casavant would build for their EP's. Everything was the same, it even looked the same--but--the chests were slider. I was absolutely shocked to hear the difference in ....attack...of the pipes. It was a completely different sound and I know the difference between voicing and regulation troubles and a foundational difference in tone quality imparted by a different type of chest action.

The question I had then and still have to this day is: what sound did I like better? The sound from a slider chest or that from a pneumatic chest? It's hard to say-obviously. When I consider the troubles I had tuning that organ (25 ranks?) with my esteemed tuning and voicing friend, Tom Fitches, I have to conclude I'd prefer to work with e.p. organs (without slider chests-an e.p. organ can have slider chests) . What I'd prefer to listen to week after week in my church, is still an unanswered question.

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



Flame throwing aside--don't put on the asbestos suit, it's dangerous.

This is an interesting topic--although it's been argued to death for decades. I'm not referring to "fought to death" btw, that's entirely different. As a result of the excellent arguments presented on both sides of the fence I tend to agree with both sides and therefore I don't really have an opinion as to what's better--just comments that might support my ambiguous attitude about the subject--with one exception (later).

The comment I hear most often about tracker organs from organists is that the experience is very enjoyable as they feel better connected to the control aspects of the instrument than they might with an electric action organ (direct electric, pneumatic). Usually they like "the touch" of the keyboards-- referring to the initial resistance and sudden collapse of the key upon depression by the finger. However, I notice that more than a few large or significant pipe organs with electric initiated action sometimes have the cheapest keyboards where there's uniform resistance met by the finger while depressing a key. Other electric action organs have keyboards with built-in "tracker-touch" and they can impart a satisfying feeling that comes close to the feeling of a tracker organ-- although I've observed tremendous difference in touch between tracker touch keyboards even when built by the same company.

Keyboards that have uniform mush touch, I believe, have the ability to impart tendonitus or carpel tunnel syndrome to some organists who might practice on them hours a week. I can't prove it but I know a few instances where it appears this has occurred. 

The feel of the keyboards has a tremendous impact on how an organist might feel about an organ.

Has anyone ever encountered the phenomena of connecting a new console to an older and otherwise unaltered electric action organ? The first reaction of organists familiar with the instrument is invariably "the organ sounds better now" or " was something changed inside the organ?"

I've witnessed organists approaching an organ for the first time and without playing it they take an immediate aversion to the entire organ because it has "reverse keyboards" --ebony for naturals and ivory facing for sharps. Over the years, I figure, they've equated reverse keyboards with organs that produce an excessive or ill-conceived neo-baroque tonality-which, where I live and work is often the unfortunate case but frequently the console with the reverse keyboards is new but connected to a reasonable older romantic inspired organ.

I encountered one of the worst "new" electronic organs available about 15 years ago. The keyboards were pure mush--and the drawknobs (not solenoid driven) offered stiff resistance to the pull. I later read the sales brochure that came with the e. organ. It advertised the organ had "tracker-touch drawknobs" --honestly, I don't have enough imagination to make-up something like that. Why am I being so elusive? It was an electronic built about 1986 by a company that had bought the WurliTzer name.  "Tracker-touch" drawknobs!! Fortunately the organ had presets--the knobs were so tight you couldn't easily pull them out while playing.

Now, for my reservation about some trackers. In my part of N.A. I've never run across an old tracker (pre-1910) that I liked. I find they were all built with materials that are inferior to what's commonly used by contemporary tracker builders--and in some instances those materials were available pre-1910. They seem incapable of staying in tune, and they seem to be constant sources of irritation for the churches that own them and in all cases, the organists that play them are extremely easy-going in their attitude towards the function of their old tracker organs. My comments are reserved to 3 old builders: S.R. Warren, Edward Lye and R.S. Williams. I've not played an old Casavant tracker--although, I've tuned one--being the guy "inside" with the "stick". They might be very good and capable of changing my mind about old trackers in my part of N.A.  

Finally, it's true, as you may have unknowingly alluded to in your statement: Not everyone gave up on the horse and buggy... 

Thanks for reading and possibly forgiving my tangental response. 

 

[telemanr]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

I've made recordings of notes played with variouschanges in touch after a variable number of notes played with a particular touchand then asked listeners (who play organs)to tell when the touch changed. So far no one has done better than random. I'm with SB on this one. If you're the one doing the playing then you know how you keyed the note so I do think you are inclined to hear what you want or expectto hear. (I'm not talking about extremely slow and measured key presses where you are trying to grossly exaggerate the speech of the pipe.)

[Havoc]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?

Immense trackers seem a bit odd for a concert hall

Organs in a concert hall are odd in general. I know of 3 such installations in Brussels and none is in a playable condition and has been in that condition for a looooong time (only 1 concert hall organ in whole Belgium is in playable condition). In fact most are out of order for 30 years or more because they never are used at all. Only their facades are present, but the rest of the pipes and console have been in store for ages. No one misses them and no one cares. If a concert needing an organ is played, they move the orchestra to the church and play there. Good acoustics, easier and better/suitable organ. It doesn't depend on the organ being a tracker, most concert hall organs are electro/pneumatic beasts that are very hard to maintain, obsolete and just cost handfulls of money to keep from falling apart because build in a period when craftmanship was at his lowest. Those organs were made to be large, lots of ranks but without any merit and especially cheap.

Issue is that those organs are not versatile enough, and the place they are in precludes frequent use as most concert halls are in use for other music than the handfull romantic organ concertos they are suitable for. So they are nothing more than -expensive- decor. If an organ is needed, then it is mostly for baroque music and a chest organ is wheeled in. And in the rare case a romatic organ concerto is played they go to a church where a real romantic organ is, not some post-modern ersatz.

Really it would be better to remove the concert hall organs and put the money thus saved in instruments that are worthy of it.

I'm a skeptic when it comes to controlling chiff via touch. Over the course of many years I've experimented with this on trackers of every description; I'm not convinced it is effective in a musically tangible way

That is not the impression you gave on a myriad of other posts. I can assure you that this isn't imaginary and that once you master it as a player, you certainly can hear it as a listener. 

[soubasse32]

Re: What's the big deal about tracker organs?



[quote user="AllanP"]The secret to pipe speech on a slider chest is supposed to be the air expansion chambers under pipe feet that cushion the onset of air pressure to the pipe allowing the pipes to be voiced on the quick side. One of the few types of electro-pneumatic actions instruments that have the same type of chest construction (pallets and expansion chambers) is the Wurlitzer theatre organ. This construction allows for very quick speech of the pipes. My organ teacher tells me that she can outplay a pittman chest action (standard chest of today with individual disk valves under each pipe). On the pittman chest, the pipes need to be voiced slow due to the sudden onset of air pressure due to the lack of expansion chambers.[/quote]One of the benefits of the slider chest is that all pipes on a given note speak from the same breath (poetically speaking).

I play an organ with this type of action - the attack seems to be delayed by a miniscule amount. Repetition is a bit slower than on other actions, but hardly to the point of being an issue where music is concerned.

When playing a full combination, this action seems to give a very grand feeling - it is almostlike I can feel the pipes filling with air. On quieter registrations, the sensation gives a very 'vocal' quality to the sound.