Reed Organ Discussion - Expanded

[james]

I still say that a very nice reed organ could be made in lieu of some expensive pipe organs. Many of the analog organ are very expensive, and the digital organs, keyboards, etc. just lack a warmth that goes along with the older electronic organs which we call analog these days. Some of those had some great ideas, but I still say the old Wurlitzer electrostatic reed models had a great sound without any spinning Leslies, Spectr tone, etc.

I think they had a realistic pipe organ sound when no vibrato was used that the digital organs just can't do in my honest opinion. If some company would begin production of these old line Wurlitzer organs such as Suzuki has done with Hammond, I do think many churches, instuitions, maybe even homes would once again be interested in realistic sounding organs that are just a "pipe dream" for many due to such expense. Some digital organs cost far more than a decent pipe organ with a few ranks.

Many reed organs that were made before electronics could do quite well, and the discussion in another thread on the OF does give some nice explanations of what a reed organ can be capable of doing.

It seems in my area of the US the Wurlitzer reed organs had problems due to humidity, but it was recently pointed out to me that their later tube models had damper chasers used to help with that matter.

I must comment that the first Wurlitzer spinet type organ on the market had a sound that is just awe inspiring for serious music, and even I was amazed at the smooth touch, the richness of tone, and the easy rocker type stops to use that it seems more practical than the touch stops where lights come on etc.

Many reed organs could get away from the accordian sound, and I agree here my reed organ which is an old pump organ does remind me of an accordian. Yet, when I played on a Wurlitzer electrostatic organ the sound is very realistic from the smallest model on up. I think it would be a simple approach as well as bring quality organ sound back to the masses.

Yes, people will have opinions such as I do, but it is the expense I am thinking about. I had rather have a small pipe organ with few ranks or one that is unified than many of the digitals I have played on. Some of the very large digital organs are very impressive, but the price was as much or more than a small pipe organ.

I still think the reeds have much to offer once again. So, here is my two cents worth and more.

James

[Havoc]

Re: Reed Organ Discussion - Expanded



I do agree that reed organs are undervalued instruments. But that is about how far I want to go along. Lets take your points one by one and put some realism into them.

I still say that a very nice reed organ could be made in lieu of some expensive pipe organs.

Comparing on price is very hard because they are very different instruments. Pipe organs don't have to be expensive and neither is a reed organ that has to replace a pipe organ cheap. You are comparing what a parlour organ costs with a special designed and handcrafted organ. Those parlour organs were cheap mass produced reed organs with very limited possibilities. They were really made in factories on an assembly line. This you compare to a pipe organ designed for a single customer to his (mostly exagerated) specs, using the finest materials. Most organs are really over-spec'ed. Don't know if this is due to the organ builder trying to milk a customer knowing nothing about organs or organists/churches having pipe dreams.

You should compare like with like. I have now an industrial made organ (second hand) and it was cheap. It can fill a church, it has 2M+P and 5 ranks. Compare that to a second hand reed organ with 5 ranks of reeds, 2M+P and you will see that the prices are not far off.

I think they had a realistic pipe organ sound when no vibrato was used that the digital organs just can't do in my honest opinion.

Now you're comparing with digital organs. I rather wouldn't because few people really count the real cost of electronic organs.

Some digital organs cost far more than a decent pipe organ with a few ranks.

I agree completely. My 5 rank pipe organ costed 2500 euro. Less than 2 manuals and a pedal for a Hauptwork setup. (Okay, I had transport to pay and I'm putting it back in shape myself) It is 40 years old but it will survive me.

Many reed organs that were made before electronics could do quite well, and the discussion in another thread on the OF does give some nice explanations of what a reed organ can be capable of doing.

If you compare with the first generation analogs, then reed organs will come out reasonably well. But once you compare to recent electronic organs (at least those intended to emulate pipe organs) it doesn't hold anymore. Reed organs can't do a decent reed immitation. (sounds funny when you write that) And then there is the slow speech or reeds.

Many reed organs could get away from the accordian sound, and I agree here my reed organ which is an old pump organ does remind me of an accordian. Yet, when I played on a Wurlitzer electrostatic organ the sound is very realistic from the smallest model on up. I think it would be a simple approach as well as bring quality organ sound back to the masses.

No, sadly reed organs cannot get away from the accordeon sound because that is what they in fact are! Reed organs are accordeons! There is a direct historical link from reed organs towards accordeons, you cannot deny that. There is only so much harmonic structure you can get out of a oscillating free reed. You could couple it to some resonant cavities (pipes?) to change it a bit but then why not build a pipe directly? 

And I fear that comparing it with the "electrostatic" organ is again problematic as you are not comparing like with like.

Yes, people will have opinions such as I do, but it is the expense I am thinking about. I had rather have a small pipe organ with few ranks or one that is unified than many of the digitals I have played on. Some of the very large digital organs are very impressive, but the price was as much or more than a small pipe organ.

You are right in that viewpoint. If more people would spend some time doing hard calculations they would come to the same conclusions. Unless you think that you cannot make music with less than 3 manuals and 100+ ranks. I did the calculation comparing a decent Hauptwerk setup with a second hand real pipe organ. A Hauptwerk setup had more "possibilities" in the sense of "more ranks" but there it ended. I would never have the same feeling of a tracker organ (or the manuals themselves cost as much as a real organ!), it would age very fast and a decent audio system alone would cost as much as a second hand pipe organ.

Likewise I do agree that reed organs have something to offer. But sadly it isn't an alternative to a pipe organ. They are nice instruments that can play a certain range of organ music very well. But they are too limited to be a general replacement for a pipe organ. It would be the same as a piano: you can use a piano to practise a lot of organ music but it can't replace an organ either.

Now just a related rant from me that I wanted to vent for a long time:

Somewhere, someone should have the balls commercial insight to develop a real pipe organ as an industrial item. It should be a modular design that can scale from 1M+P 5 ranks to 3M+P 20 ranks (let's say 5 fixed models). It should use commonly availble standard materials and modern manufacturing techniques. It should be designed so that the only intonation required is tuning and wind regulation (I feel modern manufacturing techniques are sufficiently advanced to -repeatably- make intonated pipes once a model has been intonated the "old way") If C-C could intonate pipes in his workshop so he didn't have to do it again in church (so the story goes) then this should be possible now. If it can be done with piano's/guitars/flutes/triangles, then it can be done with pipe organs.

This organ should be intended at organ students and the price should be so that a 2M+P 5 rank isn't much more expensive than a good quality upright piano. It should be made to sound good in average -largish- living rooms. The outward appearance could be rather bland, just like the common upright piano (but please not shiny black). A general structural lifetime of 50-100 years, not including things like blowers/switches/etc and 10 years between "large maintenance" where you check/replace valve lining/bearings/etc.

Tough? Probably. Impossible? No. Risky business plan? Hell yes.