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Washington Cathedral 64' stop question

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  • Washington Cathedral 64' stop question



    The stoplist for the E M Skinner organ of 1938 at the cathedral includes this item:




    64’ Bombarde Basse (ext.)







    I've already read that the only genuine 64' stops in the world are in Atlantic City and the Sydney Town Hall organs.




    Is the Cathedral stop a resultant, perhaps?



  • #2
    Re: Washington Cathedral 64' stop question

    [quote user="Etienne"]

    The stoplist for the E M Skinner organ of 1938 at the cathedral includes this item:




    64’ Bombarde Basse (ext.)







    I've already read that the only genuine 64' stops in the world are in Atlantic City and the Sydney Town Hall organs.




    Is the Cathedral stop a resultant, perhaps?


    [/quote]

    I'm not sure what the answer is, but my theory is that since it says "(ext.)" it may be just the bottom octave of 64', and pitches above the bottom octave are produced with a separate 32' Bombarde Basse rank.

    I am also interested in finding out the answer. [:)]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Washington Cathedral 64' stop question

      I should have mentioned that I recently heard from a man who was an usher at the Cathedral from the days of Paul Calloway up until some point during Doug Major's reign. He claims that the longest pipe in the organ was 64' - but he also refers to the builder as 'Eugene' Skinner.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Washington Cathedral 64' stop question

        [quote user="Etienne"]


        The stoplist for the E M Skinner organ of 1938 at the cathedral includes this item:




        64’ Bombarde Basse (ext.)







        I've already read that the only genuine 64' stops in the world are in Atlantic City and the Sydney Town Hall organs.




        Is the Cathedral stop a resultant, perhaps?





        [/quote]




        This stop extends down three notes to AAAAA. There quite a few other organs that do the same. You are correct as to the only organs that extend fully down to CCCCC.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Washington Cathedral 64' stop question



          as pipecutter said, there are only a few pipes in the 64' stop, the balance have over time been either a resultant or electronically generated.



          When Paul Calloway gave his retirement recital at WNC, I sat a few rows back of the great crossing. He only used the "Bomb" 64' stop once.at the end of the Franck "Piece Heroique", and in the nave it was barely audible. The bombard Basse was added to the organ's specs during the time of the 73-76 rebuild/renovation.



          IF you go to a recital at WNC, the best seat in the house is to sit directly in front of the console's back panel, because you hear exactly what the player hears. In the nave the organ is less than impressive and the further back you sit the more distant the organ sounds. It was not designed to fill the completed nave, and it's placement has been modified somewhat to try to move the organ's sound "out" into the nave, with only mixed results.



          Rick in VA

          Comment


          • #6
            Another 64' Reed

            There is also a 64' extension on the Rieger at Holy Trinity Episcopal in NYC. It was damaged during a window restoration but should be back in soon. It is quite an impressive sound.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Another 64' Reed

              more information on Holy Trinity Episcopal:

              http://www.nycago.org/Organs/NYC/htm...tyEpisUES.html

              that particular stop goes down to the A below CCC in the 64' octave but does not extend down to CCCC....the pedalboard has some extra notes at the bottom below.....VERY useful in my opinion!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Another 64' Reed



                What a strange bird that Rieger is! Funky console design, no enclosed choir division, extra pedals, no crescendo, odd specification-IMHO I'd prefer the 3/67 analog Rodgers that used to be there! [:P] It's a shame that the Skinner was scrapped instead of enlarged/repaired!



                How does a 64' extension fit in to the pedal stoplist?

























                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Another 64' Reed



                  What is 'funky' about the console design? It is a standard terraced drawknob console.




                  And as for no enclosed choir division and no crescendo - that is pretty much standard for continental European organs (and for a good many American organs from the 19th-century).




                  [quote user="Philip the organist"]How does a 64' extension fit in to the pedal stoplist?[/quote]That's what the extra pedals are for. Play anything below bottom "C" on the Bombarde and you have a 64' stop. [8-|]




                  What is unusual about this instrument is that all Pedal stops are en ravalement. What this means to me is that you can use the Bombarde at the end of Liszt's B-A-C-H Fantasy and Franck's Pièce Héroïque ... and you can also play a low "B" on softer stops for works such as Bach's Pièce d'Orgue, BWV572. Very useful. [:)]

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Another 64' Reed

                    [quote user="soubasse32"]

                    What is 'funky' about the console design? It is a standard terraced drawknob console.[/quote] [:$]The knob layout is somewhat asymmetrical and sparse, but taking another look at it now, it looks quite inviting and pretty.




                    [quote user="soubasse32"]And as for no enclosed choir division and no crescendo - that is pretty much standard for continental European organs (and for a good many American organs from the 19th-century). [/quote]



                    I know -I just thought that one would want to include such features by default in a big church like Trinity.



                    [quote user="soubasse32"]




                    [quote user="Philip the organist"]How does a 64' extension fit in to the pedal stoplist?[/quote]That's what the extra pedals are for. Play anything below bottom "C" on the Bombarde and you have a 64' stop. [8-|]




                    What is unusual about this instrument is that all Pedal stops are en ravalement. What this means to me is that you can use the Bombarde at the end of Liszt's B-A-C-H Fantasy and Franck's Pièce Héroïque ... and you can also play a low "B" on softer stops for works such as Bach's Pièce d'Orgue, BWV572. Very useful. [:)][/quote] Oh, that makes sense. I thought NYC meant a separate knob, separate rank, that was specifically 64' like at Boardwalk Hall.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Another 64' Reed

                      [quote user="Philip the organist"][quote user="soubasse32"]And as for no enclosed choir division and no crescendo - that is pretty much standard for continental European organs (and for a good many American organs from the 19th-century). [/quote]


                      I know -I just thought that one would want to include such features by default in a big church like Trinity.[/quote]You have a point - I'm not sure how appropriate this specification might be for an Episcopalian worship service. [*-)] In such a service I'd rather have a Skinner with lots of enclosed divisions and 32' stops. [8-|]




                      As for playing solo Bach repertoire and French literature, this organ does quite well. It sounds a bit brilliant on recordings... I might have opted for one less Clairon. Now that I'm thinking about it... if I could change the spec I would have a 2' instead of a 1' and I would probably swap the Chamade with the Cromorne.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Another 64' Reed



                        You expressed my thoughts perfectly![:)] It looks like a fantastic recital instrument, but in an Episcopal (or similar) service, I too would want something more Romantic and full of the usual playing aids and sub/supers.



                        Do you provide consulting services to churches who want a new instrument? If not, you really, really should!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Another 64' Reed



                          [quote user="Philip the organist"]Do you provide consulting services to churches who want a new instrument? If not, you really, really should!
                          [/quote]Why, thank you. [:)]




                          Yes, I am an organ consultant (on rare occasions).




                          Back to that spec...instead ofhavingtwo manual 4' ClaironsI'd rather have one in the Pedal; it is helpful for literature. All of that upperwork seems as if it would be tiring after prolonged hearing - though I must admit I don't know that particular acoustic space. Maybe it is needed.




                          I'd really wish for another, stronger 16' manual reed, especially as there is a 32' Bombarde;this helps bridgethe manuals and Pedal. I don't know if thereare octaves graves on this instrument... that would help a bit.




                          Enough 'armchair analysis'- apologies fortaking this thread off-topic. [:$]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Another 64' Reed

                            From reading all the responses, I think that my theory was incorrect. But I'm afraid I still don't know what the proper answer is. [:$] Does the organ actually have a 64' pipe?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Another 64' Reed



                              [quote user="Johan64'"]From reading all the responses, I think that my theory was incorrect. But I'm afraid I still don't know what the proper answer is. [:$] Does the organ actually have a 64' pipe?
                              [/quote]




                              No, it does not have a 64' pipe. In this case it is only a 64' stop in reference to what the lowest note would be if it existed. Much like a TC (tenor c) celeste would still be referred to as an 8' stop in spite of the fact that there are no pipes for the bottom octave. So you can think of the National Cathedral's 64' stop as "missing" the lowest 9 pipes and then begins with the 10th pipe "A" which would be the A below 32' C. The longest pipe would be only 40ish feet long.

                              Comment

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