Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

[soundboarddude]

I suppose my question is simply why would anyone want a positiv organ (errr, whatever you call those 1m instruments without pedal boards and up to 8 stops max).

I mean, even if it may be suitable for playing with a small string group or a small choir, but without the pedal line with the bass, hymns just seem too "dry" to me. Play a hymn with and without the pedal: it amazingly sounds almost dry without.

There's not really any reason to use it for practice, you can use a piano for that. A piano has more notes that a portive organ and would probably allow you to do more.

So what is the purpose?

[toodles]

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[soundboarddude]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

You know, I never thought about the touch.

> I like the sound of a small organ with gentle voicing and pipes close to my ears.

Well I do too, but if it's being used for practice... you know what I'm saying though?

Don't get me wrong though: I'd always choose an organ over a piano any day... no matter how clunky it is.

[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

I would have to have pedals though, even if the builder had to rig up something with "pedal sticks" I need to do something with my feet, or I will go insane.

[soundboarddude]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

Eheh, same here. I admit, "sticks" are better than nothing... like you said, I may go insane without anything to do with my feet.

[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

If someone asks me to play a hymn without pedal, I literally cant to it. I will subconciously end up throwing the pedal, and I wont realize it. Anything else just feels unbalanced. I have never even seen pedal sticks before, how does one play them, without breaking them off? They look fragile.

[back52887]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

by"sticks", are you refering perhaps to pull downs?, These are coupled from the lowest notes of the manuel and do not have an independent stop of their own.

The positiv was originaly contrasted with the portativ, a "portable" as the name implies, from the late middle ages; it was a sort of pipe-accordian in a variety of shapes. In the Renaissance a larger instrument with longer pipes that was built to stay put in position came into the salons, mostly in Italy and France. Like most instruments of non-german origin, pedals were few or none, mostly existing to provide a simple drone bass, but that was true of larger institutional instruments of the era as well. The concept of a small scale manual with just one 8' voice and lots of upper work was eventually integrated into the larger organs of the baroque under the original name.

The modern positiv or continuo organ has the advantage of being, in fact, portable (with 4 healthy students to "port" it), and of providing organ sound to small choirs and instrumental groups, as well as being a practice instrument. For a begining organ student it is a far less intimidating venue to work with registration changes, having just three or four stops to work out all possible combinations on.

Yes, I will sometimes leave out pedal on a single verse in a quiet hymn, but it takes a conscious effort to keep my heel hooked on the bench's footrail.

Lee

[toodles]

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[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

I do agree with the comment about registration. Even though all organs are pretty much the same to play, looking at row after row of stops, 4 manuals, and sitting at a console that is much taller then me, can be quite overwhelming.

[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

Don't you believe in the power of positiv thinking?!

[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

Wow, I feel so enlightened.

[davidecasteel]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

Don't denigrate the effect of a good compact pipe organ. When I was in Germany several years ago, the organ in the Basilica in Bonn was being renovated by Klais Orgelbau, a fact I knew because I was visiting the Klais factory as part of our church's organ selection committee. I attended worship there and was surprised to hear organ music accompanying the singing, with a sound level sufficient for the building. Imagine my surprise when I discovered that the organ music was being provided by a chest-sized instrument with 4 ranks of pipes (half-length flutes plus reeds) and no pedals sitting on the floor up near the Chancel area. It was a Klais positiv on loan while the main organ was being reworked. Now, as you can imagine, the variety of tones available was very limited, as was the range of volume; however, it served very well during services for congregational singing and even allowed for a fairly interesting prelude and postlude. Perhaps we are all spoiled by what is normally available to us.

David

[Guest]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

For what it is worth:

1. My undergraduate alma mater fielded three significant instruments, of which one is a
five-voice, seven rank portativ, no pedal--normally kept in a 600-seat reverberant chapel.
Organ degree candidates were expected to play one composition (for keyboard only) on this
instrument as a portion of the candidate's senior recital. Our major professor told us
regularly that: 'a proficient musician can do significant good work on only a few voices'.
She also proved the proposition, by playing chapel Sunday services on this portative
for almost a year, while the large 3/50 tracker was being rebuilt after fire damage.

2. I served a liturgical congregation which offered me the choice between a 60s-vintage
Hammond, and a single-manual, 4-stop portative. The portative had Laukhuff pipework,
split at middle-C, and hard-connected pulldown pedal. The choir director was a MSM from
a major institution, and told me regularly: I wish we had a larger instrument, but what we
have is very good indeed. The instrument completely filled the need for liturgy, hymnody,
voluntaries, and choral accompaniment for my five-year stint, up till the congregation
congregation decided to become more........'contemporary'.

Two organ teachers have told me: 'Many musicians can do some reasonable work with
100+ voices and thundering pedal. My students learn to do all of that with their EARS and
HANDS alone--and we find out who is really the *master* at the SMALL instrument,
not the large one!'

Well said...

[Havoc]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

To play well on a positive is not easy. Whatever you do, you don't have anything masking your faults. Touch is incredible direct, the pipes (if well made) speak very clearly and prompt. And if you bang on the manual like a concert pianist, you won't hear the organ.

You don't need pedal on an organ. To play all the manual only music the is around would take a lifetime. And if playing on a prestant 8' alone, and it gets boring after 30 minutes, there is something wrong with your playing or the prestant.

[KleinErzahler]

Re: Positivs - My question is simply "why?"

Hi List,

If the Positiv organ had a 58-note Vogelgesang, would that make the sound less "dry"? (C:

- Nate