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**VaPipeorgantuner** · 09-06-2010, 09:26 AM

An intersting spec, to be sure, and probably a nice organ, but not necessarily one that Harry Hall would have built. I have worked on a Harry Hall organ that was built in the early 1930's, 3 manuals and 30-odd ranks, so it a bit smaller than this one. What would be more characteristic of the organs of that time period is that they would have more emphasis on unison (8-foot) stops and not so much on the upper work. The mixture (typically there would have been one, it being placed in the swell division, not the great) would have been on the order of a Dolce Cornet III, with a base pitch of either 2 2/3 or 2...definietely NOT a cymbal or other high-pitched type mixture that is more in favor of the organ-revival movement that begun in the late 1950's. String stops of 16-foot pitch were more common...the Hall I refer to has 16-foot dulciana and 16-foot cello/salicional stops along with the bourdon, Diapason and Leiblich gedact stops at 16-foot. a 32' stop would more likely have been a resultant, as those pipes, even in the 1930's were very costly to produce. Also, the reed stop in the choir would almost certainly have been a Clarinet stop only,probably not a second oboe (or perhaps an "orchestral" oboe leaning towards english horn). ( yes, I did see that there was a clarinet on the choir) Harry Hall built sturdy chests in both ventil and pitman style, the consoles, not so great, but functional. Good workmanship thruout, especially considering that the Hall Organ Company was one whose organs were of modest cost compared to most of the 'major' builders of that era.
Rick in VA

**pgonciarz** · 09-07-2010, 04:47 PM

Well actually this organ absolutely was built by Hall. Basically everything that you mentioned that isn't a characteristic of Hall, or most other organs of the time were added by my professor in the 1990's. The organ originally had no mixtures (the only mutation was the 2 2/3' Nazard), no oboes (now it has two), and a lot of things that were once borrowed, are now independent. Mr. Flood more than doubled the size of it, expanding the original 17 ranks to 41 ranks! The 32' Bourdon is a resultant (hence the 32 NOTES - not pipes). Mr. Flood did mention that a 16' Dulciana was supposed to be included, but the low budget couldn't include it. It's documented that the organist of the time wanted a 16' Lieblich rather than a soft 16' String. And sacrificing the 16' Bourdon, or 16' Open Diapason wasn't an option. I do admit that it's strange that the 16' Open Diapason is metal, not wood. I'm sure a larger organ would have included a 16' String. I have many lessons on this organ, and I know for a fact that in this very small sanctuary, there's no room for a full length 16' String. The only full length 16's are the Diapason which is Spanish mitered, and the Trombone which is mitered as well. The bottom octaves of the 16' Bassoon and 32' Trombone are Walker Digital. So that's really it, I do find it odd though that there was never an 8' String (or 2 or 3.....) on the great, as well as another 8' or 2 on the Choir. But what can I say, it definitely was a budget instrument at the time, and the organist at the time DID have a say in the stop list, as did Stanley Saxton who designed it.

I'm very aware of all those things that you mentioned, and in fact, those are the instruments that I prefer to play. Although I do prefer them to at least have a Dolce swell mixture - I love the rich tonal palate that they had. I hope that answered your questions.

**jskumro** · 09-14-2010, 06:11 AM

I (as you know Peter) am also familiar with this instrument. I believe it should be noted that this instrument is installed in a very interesting space. It's a gothic style building. However, the sanctuary has been renovated into a more modern design, and an octagonal shape. The acoustics are not so vast, allowing the organ to speak very clearly into the space.

I feel after playing and listening to this organ, that the rebuilding was done well enough to recall the original disposition and style of organ building. However, the instrument as it stands today is a far cry from the original 1939 Hall Organ, or even organs from the era. This is not to say that it is a bad thing. I think that especially considering the resources, this is an exceptional instrument. Sometimes, I can see how a rebuilding that completely changes the overall tonal design is frowned upon. In this case, however, I believe it was done tastefully.

**pgonciarz** · 09-14-2010, 06:29 PM

Absolutely Joel. I'm not sure, but I'm pretty sure Stanley Saxton died a couple years ago, but Mr. Flood did consult him during the rebuilding of it. Mr. Flood was 100% true to the original tonal sound, and didn't do anything that wasn't appropriate tonally. SO many people like Po-Chedley, and Schlicker completely screwed up a lot of nice instruments. (Corpus Christi, St. Stan's, St. Joe's Cathedral, etc.) Fortunately, St. Stan's and St. Joe's were changed back to somewhat original condition. But the way I see it - if you can and have the money, add what would have been necessary to play more types of literature. Let's face it, even though the tonal sound of these early American organs was/is awesome, things like Mixtures on all the divisions, and important stops like an Oboe is needed to play a lot of music, not to mention hymns as well. Just as long as you're true to how the organ was supposed to be. The organ was really supposed to have a lot of the things it has now, but they just couldn't afford it at the time. So what can I say? Regardless of whether a high pitched Cymbale III wouldn't have been common, or an Oboe on the choir, I don't know of a better concert organ in Niagara Falls. Although I still have yet to play the 3 man, 45ish rank Skinner around the block at First Pres. but again, Mr. Flood said that organ has been messed with by Schlicker, and although yes it is a nice instrument, tonally it isn't what it used to be.

**VaPipeorgantuner** · 09-17-2010, 06:10 PM

Not picking a fight, but making an observation:
the original organ was 17 ranks? now it is 41, so it is more NOT a harry hall organ than it is...I am not saying that it isn't a nice instrument, just that to call it a Hall isn't really so, even if the nucleus of the organ was by Harry Hall...the additions have expanded the tonal resources for sure, just not the way Hall would have constructed the organ had he built it as 41 ranks when it was originally built in the 1930's, that's all. to say that the organ was 'supposed to' have leads me to ask if the additions were stops prepared for in the original organ. To say an organ is supposed to have certain things is not necessarily so...an organ doesn't need mixtures on all divisions. Look at the specifications of the major builders of the 1930's...one mixture, limited 'upperwork' and lots of unison-pitched color stops once the basics of a diapason chorus on the GT, Flutes and strings on the SW, perhaps a secondary "chorus" of some sort on the CH.
Rick in VA

**pgonciarz** · 09-17-2010, 06:53 PM

I totally see your point - in fact my teacher does say "it isn't really a Hall anymore, it's more of a Flood." It's just that the way you seemed to word it, it sounded like you were implying that it was never a Hall. I recently asked Mr. Flood what was original and what was added while sitting at the console, and I'm going to edit the stop list right now - just so there's no confusion. Interestingly enough Moller was supposed to build the organ for this church, but I guess they were too expensive! I know I've said this a million times on this forum - but I really love the organs based at unison pitch. Yes I'd prefer a Mixture hear or there - but I've really come to appreciate the "American (sometimes 16'), 8',4',2 2/3', and 2' Principal Chorus" for what it is. A lot of people say that those organs tend to be muddy and the melodic line is always blurred bla bla bla. But what ever. I'd play a 1920ish Skinner, Moller, Austin, etc. any day over some Schantz, or Holtkamp or something.

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1939 Hall Organ at First Baptist Church - Niagara Falls, NY

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