Further Unitization & addition of Holtkamp 56 key console to Reuter opus #822

[NYCFarmboy]

OK, I just purchased a Holtkamp 2 manual keyboard for possible use with my pipe organ as a 2nd console..

It has two 56 note manual keyboards and a standard 32 note AGO pedalboard....highest note is G on the manuals.

What are the limitations of a 56 note versus 61 note manual keyboard? I'm told that it is not a issue for most classical organ music, but does limit orchestral transcriptions.

I believe the reason it was made that way was to save on costs, I have read in the trade magazines that these 56 note manual compass keyboards are still being produced, especially on trackers.


thoughts on the 56 note versus 61?

[soundboarddude]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Let me ask you something, how often do you usually play that high anyways?

If you do play that high, then you are limited. Otherwise, it's not really a factor...

Especially for hymn playing. The tracker at FUMC Gainesville has the highest note of either an E or an F (I can't remember which). I do remember that they're not 61 notes. However, I never get that high anyways for hymn playing, so for me, it's not an issue.

I can't think of any music off the top of my head that goes that high anyways...

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Me? for myself I'd rarely be up there at that top 5 notes of the top octave.

I'm going to use this Holtkamp console as my "downstairs" console on my Reuter 5 rank, I've talked to the technician who will be rewiring it, installing MIDI etc. I particularly like the design of the Holtkamps in that they have the "desk" space on the sides of the keyboards which will work out well for my laptops/recording equipment.

My tec also said he will install the MIDI in such a way that files i create or download off the net that use those top notes, will play just fine even though there are no keys for those notes...so the MIDi will be 61 note. I just won't be able to record MIDI sequences on those notes unless I add them in via computer which is my reason of doing the MIDI anyhow. ... also I'm keeping the original 61 note console upstairs so I can always go upstairs to play if a piece does require those notes.

(I was all set to install MIDI on another older Reuter console but after looking at it we decided it was not the optimum console to spend alot of money on solid stating, adding MIDI to, etc....the Holtkamp is built like a tank so I know it will last and it will work out better for use... the only drawback is the 56 versus 61 note compass keyboards).

Can anyone think of any classical organ music that uses those top 5 notes?

[Guest]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

>Can anyone think of any classical organ music that uses those top 5 notes?

Surprisingly, I can not...


I honestly am rather exited to see this installation of yours, NYCFarmboy. I can't imagine all of what that organ will be playing in the future. MIDI has just enabled it to perform pieces that many of us will never be able to play (such as four-handed compositions), but now will know what it is like to actually Hear it performed on the real instrument.

As for the 56-note-keys deal, I see no problem. Every day I sit down to 44-note manuals, unless I am at my wurlitzer, and I do not find any problems in the high end. It's the Lower end of the Manual that I am lacking.

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

yes the MIDI will for me be a phenomenal event in terms of enjoying the 5 rank Reuter, I've been collecting MIDI files of all sorts of organ music, everything from difficult Widor, Bach to extremely fun Ethyl Smith,

as I understand it the computer will play the notes on the appropriate keyboard and I'll just sit there and throw stops! :)

[Guest]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Playing the stops is half the fun, so not only do your hear near impossible music playing, you get to make it sound however you want. I have envy for you.

[toodles]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Biggest problem is for the keyboard manufacturer--that 56th note is a different shape than top C, or any other key on the keyboard. End at E or F, and the shape already exists--E is flat on the right, so it's OK, F would just sub a top C key (flat sided left to mate to E, and flat sided right to mate to the key cheek; but a top G key, as to have a notch on the left for F#, and a flat right side).

I don't know of any music that needs those top notes, and notation that high is a pain to read--all those ledger lines! In pipes, the smallest ones are the cheapest to build, so the economy is minimal.

Mostly it's an historical thing, but then the key colors should be historically normal (black naturals, and white accidentals).

Toodles.

[buzzyreed]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

I was once helping a recitalist prepare for a performance on one of my 'favorite' MN organ builder's organs and we realized that the organ builder was too cheap to include the top notes. The excuse was taht it was 'more authentic to the tracker keyboard..blah blah balh.." nevermind that there is a great deal of lit that does use it.

[KleinErzahler]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Good morning NYC!

Wow, you made a great move getting that Holtkamp console!!! The Holtkamp keys have chopper blade contacts instead of touch-boxes - which will be much more reliable for operating your MIDI system than the Reuter touch-box style. Choppers are by nature easier to adjust than touch box contacts.

The other bonus with the Holtkamp console is that the keys are very easy to remove and service, and the units are much more compact and easily flip up for servicing (sure the Reuter ones flip up, but they are huge!).

Congratulations!

- Nate

[Guest]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

farmboy the highest pedal should be G if tou have 32.
in my 17 years as a serious organ amature i never faced lack of high keys in my 56 note
keyboards ,it is more pedals that were needed (my pedalboard is 27 pedals:lowC-highD).
by the way on some organ and piano peaces you can see that the composer was limited with keys . i belive that bach had only 52 in his organ when wrote tha tocata adagio and fugue
inC. in the fugue at some point the motiv is not played "correctly" and some notes were changed to fit a narrow keyborad.

[NYCFarmboy]

Re: 56 note versus 61 note keyboards?

Thanks Nadav, The Holtkamp has a standard AGO 32 note pedalboard, the top note on the manuals is a G I believe.

[Guest]

Re: 49 note keyboards

I played the rather famous Josef Gabler organ
at Weingarten Abbey in southern Germany.
It is a very large 4 manual organ which was
completed in 1750, the year Bach died.

The Abbey is enormous, I have heard it called
The Bavarian St. Peters. Very ornate Roccoco
design, and the organ is quite magnificent.

The console is detached and reversed, with the
trackers running under the floor back into the organ.
The organist sits looking straight down the nave
with the Altar a block away.

The 4 manuals are still only 49 notes, 4 octaves.
So "middle C" really is exactly in the middle!

The pedalboard I think was originally 18 or 20
notes but has been extended up 27 notes to D.

http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/cl...r/gabler03.htm
http://pipedreams.publicradio.org/ga...eygabler.shtml
http://www.organsandorganistsonline.com/germany.htm

What an organ!!!

[Guest]

Re: 49 note keyboards

What an organ, indeed! Just look at those drawknobs!

[Guest]

Re: 49 note keyboards

>I played the rather famous Josef Gabler organ <
really ?how did you get to do that?
by the age of 17 I bought a cd of ton koopman playing it (bach trio sonata in C among others)
my life is divided to before and after that cd:)

[Guest]

Re: 49 note keyboards

> really? how did you get to do that?

I studied organ in Germany for a couple of years when I was a teenager.
My teacher was Gerhardt Bochmann, who was fairly well known then.
He was founder and head of Freunde der Kirchenmusik,
Friends of Church Music. This was in the early 1960s.

When I went on weekend trips with my family, he would advise me
to try out certain organs, and he gave me letters of introduction.
Since I was memorizing alot of music I only needed the letter.

Bochmann was a close friend of Helmut Walcha, who was more
famous in the USA, at least partly because of his recordings of
the complete works of J S Bach. I was very fortunate to be able to
meet Walcha as well and I went to his church for Evensong almost
every Saturday, and sometimes for church on Sunday.

I greatly admired Walcha for his playing style, as well as his memory.
Since he went blind about age 13 he had to memorize everything.
He had a wonderful new organ at his church in Frankfurt.
I liked his playing, especially of Bach, but also his wonderful
hymn accompaniments and free or chorale improvisations.

Steve.