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  • III rank mixture

    Hi Everyone,

    I currently play a Rodgers three manual organ for the church that I'm music director for.

    I am looking to get a III rank mixture stop out of the current stops that I have. I find that the IV rank mixtures on the sw, gt and choir are all way to bright and actually are painful to listen to.

    After talking with a friend, he said I should try using a 2 flute foot and a 1 1/3 mutation (from the swell manual) which I would couple sw
    to gt 8' and sw to gt 4'.

    Is this the best way to produce a replicated III rank mixture. Any other suggestions??

    I have attached the stop list to this post as well.

    http://www.stpaulcanfield.org/Rodgers950.htm

  • #2
    That Rodgers should have some voicing capabilities, and the mixtures should be able to be tamed. Your dealer can do this for you, I would think.

    Mixtures are traditionally made from Principals, not Flutes, and your organ doesn't seem to have an independent Twelfth 2-2/3 or Ninteenth 1-1/3 which would be best for doing what you want. Why not register the Swell Plein Jeu IV and couple it to the great? Then you can use the Swell expression to cut back its volume to match what you want on the Gt.

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    • #3
      I tend to do the same as toddles has recommended: most often coupling the Mixture on the Swell to the Great in preference to the more prominent Mixture on the Great.
      2008: Phoenix III/44

      Comment


      • #4
        You can build a mixture out of flute ranks if it is to be used as a color mixture as opposed to a chorus mixture. The former should have a third sounding rank unless it is a type of Cymbal. But I take it you are seeking a chorus mixture to add fullness to the ensemble. Quite frankly I find three rank mixtures inadequate for this unless they are low pitched such as a Grave Mixture but in that case they don't add a lot of brightness and another mixture is needed for a really complete foundation chorus. Much of this depends on voicing and, as Tootles said, you may be better off revoicing the existing mixtures - if possible lowering the pitch and voicing down the highest pitched ranks.

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        • #5
          My residence organ has a 3-rank mixture that starts out at 1-1/3. It works just fine with the flue chorus without being too much, even in a relatively small room. I never use this mixture without also having either the 2-foot flute or 2-foot principal playing also.

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          • #6
            Does anyone know where I can get a copy of the Rodgers software? I would be able to do it myself but I need a copy of their software. Any suggestions or ideas??

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            • #7
              Since this organ belongs to the church, I would strongly recommend that you have your local Rodgers dealer do this adjustment. The dealer's tech will have the necessary software (and the knowledge as to how to restore the settings should something go wrong.)

              depending on what series of rodgers you have, there may be additional mixture compositions available to assign to the mixture drawknobs. Ask your tech.

              rick in VA

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              • #8
                Originally posted by musicman923 View Post
                After talking with a friend, he said I should try using a 2 flute foot and a 1 1/3 mutation (from the swell manual) which I would couple sw to gt 8' and sw to gt 4'.
                Most mixures "break back" at various intervals as you ascend the keyboard. The suggestion your friend made may add color, but essentially, you will be missing the proper scaling of a mixture--it may get too "screechy" the higher you go, and you'll end up with the same problem.

                Everyone's suggestion of revoicing is practically the only way to go. It would seem odd, however, that on an instrument of that size Rodgers wouldn't have included at least one 3-rank mixture.

                Michael
                Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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                • #9
                  Reading your dilemma, I'd have assumed the organ you describe to be older and of far less quality than what it really is. My perspective is this: with the money spent on such a good quality Rodgers, one should not need duplicate anything by combining other stops for the "real" effect. I'm with the others who suggest getting your technician to that organ and voice/adjust the mixture. And I'll repeat what another stated: do not attempt doing so yourself, that is Rodgers responsibility, and most importantly, the organ is owned by the church.

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                  • #10
                    Likewise here, when I was playing the old Rodgers 520 that we now have for sale. The great mixture was too bright and prominent for most things (especially hymns), and that particular Rodgers model can't be voiced except for volume of stops in groups. If you wanted to soften the great mixture you also softend everything else in its group, which I didn't want. Thus, the swell mixture, coupled.

                    Rick Dostie
                    Resurrection Lutheran Church
                    Waterville, ME USA

                    Originally posted by Clarion View Post
                    I tend to do the same as toddles has recommended: most often coupling the Mixture on the Swell to the Great in preference to the more prominent Mixture on the Great.

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                    • #11
                      I have a III mixture on my great. It's nice, but too loud. If you are using it for the choir I would think it would help. Of cource only if you had other stops also playing. As you said, it really kills your ears.

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                      • #12
                        I cannot speak for the Rodgers digital organs. I bought the voicing software for our Allen R-230. It connects to the organ using the RS-232 port. Few newer computers have an external RS-232 port. So I had to use a older unit. You do need to be careful with such software. It has so many capabilities that it is possible to inadvertently create a sound that is unpleasant. The Allen organ has the capability to restore it to the original factory voicing. Seems like this software was +- $600.

                        You might contact your local Rodgers dealer and see if it is possible for you to purchase the voicing software. But I'd be negligent if I didn't point out that not every organ technician has informed and polished ears.

                        Bach On
                        Make being happy a way of traveling, not just a destination.

                        Church organ - 2 manual 12 rank Estey Pipe Organ with 12 Artisan Digital Stops
                        Home organ - Allen R-230 organ (We also have 48 pipes in a facade)
                        We have a Yamaha 6' 8" Grand
                        Have used an older Korg T3 keyboard and MIDI for doing musical arrangements.
                        I'm a Methodist organist.
                        I taught high school chorus, elementary music and middle school music.
                        Became a Technology Specialist.
                        Retired from Education after 32 years.

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                        • #13
                          I think your friend is right about the 2' and 1 1/3' with octave coupler. That's what I would try.

                          As for mixtures in general, I have a 3-4 rank mixture on the Great which is great with larger registrations but isn't always the best with baroque repertoire where the Swell 3 rank mixture is better. The difference is sometimes about where the breaks are in the mixture.

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