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  • indianajo
    replied
    Hammond models with two 61 key manuals are called consoles. With 3 1/2 octave manuals, they are called spinets. There are a number of models with built in sound systems ranging from about 1964 to 1976. The more durable are tonewheel generator models, barring the electrolytic caps which need blanket replacing anytime after 25 years.
    Similar sound to the BV with better vibrato and reverb, is the A100,A102, and A105. Have 25 pedals with folded back 8' bass over the lowest octave. They have "twos and threes" "percussion" which is an attack often heard on rock, jazz, and gospel records with "the B3 sound". They have built in reverb. They have a 13 W main amp, and a 13 W reverb amp, with 3 12" speakers built in. Very compact for a tonewheel model, ranges in price from $135 (mine at Salvation Army less tubes) to $700. Seen on television in rock bands sometimes, like 2 weeks ago, the Jack White band on Austin City Limits.
    Similar in sound to the A100 with real 16' bass via a tube divider circuit (usually broken due to e-caps) and no reverb are the RT2 and RT3. These have 32 pedals in an alleged AGO curve. They have an internal power amp. These seem to have a $500 asking price lately, but may sell for much less. Bobmann has an RT2 he is trying to sell for ~$200 in NC, and another went for that in Evansville 2 years ago.
    Similar highs to the A100 with a 30 W main amp and a 13 W reverb amp is the E100 & E300. They have different "percussion" than the A100, imitating various stringed instruments in a primitive fashion. They have 25 pedals with real 16' bass via a solid state divider circuit, which sounds one note at a time. Models include the E112, E133, E143, E170, and E182, also the E312, 333 etc. The last two digits are the furniture option. The 300 models have a primitive rhythm unit built into the case atop the organ. Because they have about 40 electrolytic caps which makes them sound strange unrestored at 40 years, prices range from $40 -$200.
    With more highs and more realistic clarinet and combo organ sounds than the A100, is my favorite, the H100, H200, H300. These have two 13 W treble channels with 8" speakers, simulating a Rotary vibrato with a 2 speaker split. They have a 30 W bass channel with a 15" speaker. The 200 has churchy sounds instead of clarinet and theater brass, etc, and the 300 is a 100 with a primitive rhythm unit built atop into the case. H112, H133, H143, H170, H182 etc furniture models. They have 25 pedals and real 16' polyphonic bass, as many notes at once as you can push down. Besides the regular 300 hz vibrato and the "dual vibrato simulating leslie speaker fast, they have a slow stereo "celeste" vibrato at about 1/2 hz I find particular appealing. They have reverb at various levels. They have optional "string bass" sustain which is fun for rock and roll and band music. They have the instrument simulating (primitive) "percussion" on the B key preset, and require modification to do the twos and threes percussion. They have a "harp sustain" on the upper manual which extends the notes a fixed decaying amount. Because they have 71 electrolytic caps which makes them sound strange at 40 years if not replaced, they sell for $0 to $200.
    The last tonewheel console model made was the R100, which has 25 pedals. It has a two channel transistor amp, internal speakers, and a built in small leslie rotary speaker. It has the same tone generator as the A100, and presumably folded back 8' bass. Schematic diagrams are not available. These have been selling at a firm $500.
    Less durable non-tonewheel hammond console models from the early seventies include the 82xx, the Concord, the Collonade, Monarch, and Elegante. Usually they can be spotted by the color tabs. They have internal amps and speaker, often a rotary on a second channel. They have a wider range of instrumental sounds than the tonewheel models, and real 16' bass on 25 pedals. They have a drawbar stop, but don't really sound like tonewheel models A100 etc. The internal connectors need reseating often annually, and of course they need electrolytic cap replacement at the 25 year boundary. They frequently have an asking price of $500, but almost never sell for that. The owners can be quite stubborn, then suddenly they are given away, timing is everything on capturing one of these.
    The hammond owners do a lot of self-repair and schematics and parts are widely available, except for generator parts for the seventies non-tonewheel models. Support and parts can come from tonewheelgeneral.com bborgan.com and bensonelectronics.com, etc. I hope you join us.
    Other tough precious metal keyed console organs from the 1960's with internal amps and speakers are the Wurlitzer 4500, 4502, 4700, and 950. The 4500 is a 25 pedal model with sustain, percussion, 2 amp channels, 5 speakers including a rotary. They have vibrato and reverb. The 4502 and 4700 are 32 pedal church models with less theatrical sounds. The 950 has a theater tab arrangement, and has a 3rd keyboard, which is based on IC technology and either works or not, not a lot of parts are availalbe for that one. The lower two keyboards are transistor divider design with RLC filters, quite repairable. All these models tend to be cursed by a hundred or more little dried up electrolytic caps, so they often sell for $0-50 because they make no sound as bought. A lot of the caps are $.07 variety, however. The schematics are available, and great support is available from Morelock's organ service of Rienzi, MS.
    Last edited by indianajo; 01-23-2013, 09:49 PM.

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  • ClergetMusic
    replied
    Indianajo, do you have any suggestions for a Hammond model that would be 61 key manuals, and not require a separate speaker (spinet model?)?

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  • OrgansR4Me
    replied
    True church organs rarely show up on Craigslist. Contact churches and colleges to find out who may have an older one stored away. The cost for them is generally low. The maintenance can be high if you are not a DIY kind of person. I've been seeing a turnover of alot of late 60's early 70's Baldwin church organs lately. But in the used market it is a love/hate situation because their venture's outside the church market weren't always the same quality and their later models were definitely not up to their early standards.

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  • ClergetMusic
    replied
    Indianajo, I should have specified electronic. I said digital, mostly because its a term that the guy who owns Classic Organs in Carmel tosses around, mostly when referring to his new electronic organs, and I guess they are digital for the most part, and produce their sounds that way. The whole playing with a touch screen or whatever doesn't really matter to me: I am looking for an instrument that will give me a similar experience to what I get on any church organ, so that I can practice repertoire and hymns.

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  • indianajo
    replied
    Well, why Andy moved this to church pipe organs is a mystery to me. If you want to do both theatre sounds and church sounds, you want some sort of home organ.
    Depends on what you want to spend and how much maintenance you want to do. There are a lot of analog organs in middle Indiana that are 30-50 years old and need all the electrolytic capacitors replaced to keep functioning. dw15xxx has been touting an Allen T12 at a church in Indy with two gyro speakers, that has 32 princess pedals. The number of sounds is rather limited, and there is no vibrato internally, it is all in the 2 huge gyro speakers.
    The church electronic organ people like Roger, Allen, and Johannus, but the maintenance on the digital ones of these if you need it is factory only after the T12 and transistor oscillator generations of Rogers, and very expensive. They tend to have huge cases and don't do theatre organ vibrato at all. Other than the T12/Rhapsody Allens with the undersized Princess pedals, and the rubber keyswitch plastic cased Rogers that often have major keyboard issues at 20 years, these are very expensive to purchase, also. There is a Rogers theatre model that people look for on theatre organs for sale here on organ, not very common and not cheap. I've never seen one for sale on craigslist or searchtempest.com within my 600 mile search range.
    Digital theatre organs in the US are pretty limited to the Roland Atlier and Lowrey, and Atliers are very rare used in Indiana. They fall of the trees like oranges in Florida where New Yorkers take them to die, but that is a $600 mile drive in a U-haul truck or $1000 for professional movers. Beware 2 digit models like the AT90, many had capacitors that leaked and dissolved the PWB's, so they can be unrepairable if something happens. There are a few techics and Yamaha organs around, fairly old, you might be able to get a few years out of one of these before serious professional maintenance is required. The Yamahas and Technics appear to be also rubber keyswitch, which appear to me to have all the longevity of plastic pop band keyboard. You see people on repair thread looking for keyparts for Yamaha frequently.
    I'm not sure why you want a digital, but maybe you like fiddling with screens to set up your sounds, or playing along with the canned rhythms built in or something. If you are that kind of player, digital Lowreys would be your cup of tea. I'd rather watch the grandchildren sing along with a kareoke machine, but it is up to you. Lowreys under 20 years old can be quite expensive, and the ones in the 20 -25 year range had some ****y IC connectors that some of the do it yourself guys have found unrepairable.
    I personally like my Hammond H100, which has way more sounds than your BV, and are common as dirt in central Indiana. A guy in Colombus rejected buying one last month for <$100. They have 25 pedals, theatre and hammond B vibrato, a stereo leslie simulator, a church like 1/3 hz "celeste" stereo vibrato, reverb. The sounds are programmable in the back with the screw panel, and since they have real 16' bass (not foldback) and more high sine waves than the BV model, the sound can be much more orchestral. The keyclick of the BV , crosstalk, and other distortions nave been eliminate by better tone generator design, which drives the people wanting a B3 nuts. But after 71 capacitors are replaced, they have the reliability of any Hammond, for 25 years or more until the capacitors need it again. Serial numbers under 11211 may need a few tube sockets replaced and they all need 16 wirewrap connections soldered, and possibly 3 or 4 cheap potentiometers upgraded. All maintenance that can be done by most amateurs and any guitar amp repair shop, certainly. The sound is instant command, tabs and "preset keys" and drawbars calling up the sounds, no fiddling with menus on screens or canned styles or anything like a modern digital. The H100 has a surplus precious metal plated contact for "cymbal" or "brush" which would lend itself to midi conversion if you want to fiddle with computers for your sounds. Like I say they are built for the ages like any Hammond, but unlike BV will need about 75 parts replaced in one go at purchase, then you can forget it except annual oiilng for 25 more years.

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  • andyg
    replied
    Note: Moved from Home Organs to Classic and Church Organs where it belongs and your duplicate thread deleted to avoid confusion. Andy - Moderator.

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  • Momboc
    replied
    Any ex-church 61 note x 2 manual plus 32 note AGO pedalboard organ would probably do e.g Allen MOS1, MOS2 or ADC classical models or their Rodgers equivalent. Throw the following searches into google to get the CL listed organs.

    allen organ site:craigslist.org/msg

    church organ site:craigslist.org/msg

    rodgers organ site:craigslist.org/msg

    Also try:

    http://barton.theatreorgans.com/adsearch.asp
    and enter 'church', 'allen', 'rodgers' or whatever into the keyword field and run the search


    good luck

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  • RODDDIEHL
    replied
    Offset manuals contain less than 61 notes. Full 61 note manuals line up with each other.

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  • JDBECK8
    replied
    ClergetMusic,

    There is a fellow in INDY who posted an Allen TC-1 and speakers a few weeks back

    http://www.organforum.com/forums/sho...ght=allen+gyro

    Dont know how close that is four you, but it is AGO spec console, 2 manuals, and such.

    Jeff

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  • seamaster
    replied
    You'll get a better response here:
    http://www.organforum.com/forums/for...ctronic-Organs

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  • ClergetMusic
    started a topic Looking for a Home Organ

    Looking for a Home Organ

    Hello, all, I'm looking for a digital home organ. I'm looking for something with a decent-sized pedal board (21 notes), pipe organ sounds, and parallel (not offset) manuals. Does anybody know of any models or organs that would work?
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