Adding Walker Electronic Voices

[Bach-On]

Met with our Pipe Organ tech yesterday. Also had a couple of representatives from the leadership of our church (United Methodist). The church has a small Estey pipe organ. It was refurbished about 10 years ago. The console and pipe interface was converted to a Peterson digital control system and all the windchests were refurbished. This two manual organ is modest and rather limited in it's voices. It uses a lot of unification and borrowing.

We are going to expand the pipe chamber to create some additional space. This will accomodate whatever the church decides to do. The chamber is very crowded and it is a real challenge for our technician to get to everything. We'll be adding a 4' by 8' area that would help. We can do that locally with in-house volunteers. Some of the pipes will be relocated for a cost of roughly $2,500. The blower will also be moved. This is included in the price.

The thinking is that adding some Walker digital voices would add more variety to the organ and beef up some sounds that the organ does not have. We don't need big power all the time. But it is nice to have for better attended services and special occasions.

Here's what we have and what our CURRENT thinking is.

First - the Pedals. There is one 16 foot Diapason, an 8 foot Diapason (same rank of pipes), an 8 and 4 foot flute (same rank of pipes), the 8 foot Trumpet and the following couplers: 8 foot Great to Pedal, 4 foot Great to Pedal, 8 foot Swell to Pedal and 4 foot Swell to Pedal. We envision possibly adding one 32 foot voice, another 16 foot Diapason, and a 16 foot Bourdon. A Reed like an 8 foot Trombe and perhaps a beefier 8 foot Diapason would help provide a good bass foundation. Another 4 foot Flute might also be nice - but we can't add too many voices because of limited space for all the rocker switch tabs (this limitation will apply to both keyboards and the Pedalboard.

Moving to the Swell. The organ has an 8 foot Stopped Diapason, an 8 foot Salicianal and a 4 foot flute. There is also an 8 foot Oboe and a rather loud 8 foot Trumpet that can be played on the two manuals and the pedals. Did I mention that it is very loud? The thinking is to add additional solo voices. I lean towards an 8 foot English Horn, either an 8 foot Trombe or a nice Krummhorn, an 8, 4 and 2 foot flute. And maybe some sort of mixture (maybe a light 2 and 2/3rd Nasard to add to other voices would provide variety). The Swell also needs some Celeste and perhaps some chimes or other bells.

The Great has one 8 foot Diapason and a 4 foot Octave (same rank of pipes), an 8 foot and 4 foot flute (same rank of pipes), an 8 foot Salicianal, the same 8 foot Trumpet, and couplers as follows - Add 8 foot Swell to Great. Add 4 foot Swell to Great and Add 4 foot Great to Great. There is also a Add 16 foot Great to Great. The thinking is to Add: another 8 foot Diapason, another 4 foot Diapason, and a 2 foot Super Octave, 8, 4, and 2 foot flutes. A Mixture (something like a Mixture III), and one or both of a 2 2/3 Nasard and a 1 3/5 Tierce. Finally the Great needs a Celeste.

A few other factors: the organ has one wind chest. It is not currently possible to add a vibrato to only one manual. The Vibrato applies to the entire organ. Having the electronic voices would make it possible to have a pure accompaniment on the Great with a solo stop with vibrato on the Swell. I NEVER USE VIBRATO ON BOTH MANUALS AND THE PEDALBOARD. Maybe some of you do, but it isn't my style.

The digital electrical system will allow this system to work together. We could add an antiphonal set of speakers at the rear of the Sanctuary. Obviously, only the electronic voices would play through these. I have mixed feelings about this. Input is welcome.

Adding this stuff new will cost between $30 and $45 K. Our Technician is going to contact Walker and see if they have some late model units that came from an organ that was taken out of service. He seems to feel we could do this addition for around $25,000 if we can find a Factory Restored unit.

Now - I know some folks in this forum hate anything electronic. But let me ask that instead of trying to convince me that this is a gigantic mistake, perhaps you could suggest different stops we could add. Treat this as if we were actually going to be adding pipes. What pipes would YOU add? Let me tell you that the church does not have the budget to add anywhere close to the number of ranks of real pipes to approach the versatility this addition would seem to add.

Any of you with experience with Walker - I would relish your input. And I also welcome alternative suggestions for the sounds to add to the various manuals and pedalboarde.

The leaders of this church were very receptive and didn't seem shocked at the ballpark figure quotted. This is not a done deal, but I believe it is a very real possibility for the not-to-distant future. I'd be a liar if I said I wasn't a little bit excited. :->

Thanks for any and all input. I want to provide this church with accurate information and good advice. Wise input from some of the experienced folks here might help me do that better.

Bach On

[hybridlover]

Dear Bach-on,

I am no expert by any means, but would offer you the following advice, having played and used the Walker digital electronics in my current position (which were installed by my predecessor some 12 years ago, on the cheap and without proper tonal finishing - ahhh). First, insist on as many discrete output channels and speakers as possible, in order to get the best, most pipe-like spread of sound. While this will be dictated by budget, etc., my experience shows that it's better to have more independent channels, so as to avoid an anticlimactic buildup of ensemble, distortion, and the cramming of sound. It is great you are looking to have digital stops and pipe stops in both division's (the organ I play currently put all the Walker stuff as a separate swell division, and none in the all pipe (great) division - the blend leaves a bit to be desired, not just because of that but because there are only two channels).

Second, make sure that the tech is knowledgeable in voicing the Walker stuff. If not, you might wish to pay to have Bob Walker himself come out and voice the stops with the pipes. I know this is mostly preaching to the choir, but proper voicing, etc. is key.

I am sure the more experienced and esteemed members on this board will have more to say, but those are my thoughts.

By the way, how exciting for you and your church!!!!

Andy

[Menschenstimme]

May I urge you to also add a 16-foot reed to the Pedal division?

My residence organ is all-pipe and is 9 stops (11 ranks) which are tastefully unified. I stretched both the budget and space to have a 16-foot reed in the Pedal. It is a 73-note trumpet that plays at 16-8-4 on the Pedal and also at 8 on the Swell and the Great. This expensive reed rank is not used all that often, but it makes a very significant addition to the organ and changes it from a practice organ to a serious organ - in my humble opinion.

Good luck and God bless!

[m&m's]

I have played several organs with Walker add-ons. There is a nice Casavant in a Methodist church in Salisbuy, MD., that has several extra voices from Walker and, if the former Director of Music had not told me which ones were electronic, I would not have been able to pick them out.

The other organ is the big one in Hurricane WV., which boasts of having the largest drawknob console in the world (and it is HUGE!). That organ has approximately forty ranks of pipes, and I don't know how many Walker ranks, and again you cannot tell which is which.

I wish you the best on your project. Again, like Andy, I urge you to have enough speakers and amplifier channels to do the job, and make sure that the person doing the install and voicing knows how to blend the Walker voices in with the pipe sounds. You will not be disappointed!

[Bach-On]

Thanks, folks. Our technician insists on having a Walker Tech do the voicing. He says it costs something like $5,000 to do this. But he's learned that if he tries to call for assistance from Walker, the first thing they ask is "Did we install this unit?" He views it as insurance. He also says they are experts at what they do.

Could you guys say a bit more about the discrete channels? I don't know what the norm for Walker is. The larger speakers was what our pipe tech was recommending. I believe his plan was to put the speakers in the pipe chamber. It seems that might help balance the volume of the pipes with the digital voices.

Are you guys talking about sending reed voices to one set of speakers, diapaisons to another, and flutes to yet another? Is that what you mean? I'm assuming this will require additional amps and add to the cost.

I have always found the flaw with MOST but NOT ALL digital organs is tutti playing where all the voices hit an inadequate speaker system. The results all too often is that the speakers cannot handle and reproduce all the signals coming through them at the same time. There are exceptions, but much of what I have played and heard weren't the exceptions.

How significant is the difference in sound between a basic system and the next notch up?

Our Allen has that 16 foot reed - I believe it is a Pousan. It is a fat sound.

Bach On

[jbird604]

In spite of Andy's less than enthusiastic endorsement of a separate all-Walker division, I'd like to chime in to suggest that very thing, though, as Andy and others mention, with much more audio, many more discrete channels.

Take a look at the pipes you have -- a rather decent assortment but not very many actual ranks. What, maybe 8 in total? Perhaps just five or six? Hard to count with all the borrowing and duplexing, but it appears to be a typical unit organ making quite a few "stops" out of not so many ranks.

However, you DO have all the tone families represented -- diapason, flute, string, and reed -- and the ranks must be at least 73 pipes each, some of them might be 85 pipes. And with just a couple of additions and changes, you would have what amounts to a pretty decent one-manual pipe organ.

I said "one-manual" because all the pipes are on one chest, in one chamber, all under the same expression, with one tremulant. And if you could use the smallest pipes to compose a mixture, and borrow some of the flute pipes to make a Nazard or some of the diapasons and make a Quinte, it wouldn't be a bad spec at all for one manual.

Why not take the pipes and chest you have, get the tech to do the simple work necessary to borrow out a quinte and a mixture, or else add an actual mixture with its own pipes (not as expensive as you might think). For a celeste (since you asked for one) convert one of the existing ranks to a celeste. If, as your description suggests, there really are two flute ranks, let the tech re-tune one of them sharp and perhaps reduce the volume a tad, and there's your celeste! Let all this become the Great Organ, and a quite nice one it would be.

For a Pedal Organ, you could actually continue to use the 16' pipe stops you already have, if they are sufficient. You could even leave the rest of the pedal spec as it is, basically borrowing pipes from the (newly-purposed) Great Organ. To make the Pedal Organ more magnificent, you might have Walker add a 32' stop and/or a 16' reed (as suggested by someone else).

Alternatively, the Pedal Organ could be all-digital and you could start from scratch and have the spec you want. On the pedalboard you don't normally play more than two keys at once, so audio can be a little less elaborate than for manual divisions. Walker folk are experts at doing this right, as they have been building digital pedal stops and extensions for a very long time.

The Swell Organ then would be pure Walker, and I wouldn't skimp on the audio. Let them help you make up a stoplist of about 15 stops for the swell, and have them play through about 8 or 10 amps and speakers. Walker has some reasonably-size speaker cabinets, so these could be made into an interesting wall-mount array if there is no chamber in which to place them. Also, the Swell Organ could be equipped with a duplicate set of speakers in the rear for a fantastic antiphonal at the flip of a switch.

Just some thoughts from an old organ tech... I have played and heard some quite amazing pipe/Walker hybrids around here, and if I could make my own organ from scratch that is the way I'd do it! As others have remarked, it is nearly impossible to tell which ranks are pipe and which are Walker, the sound is that good.

[beel m]

Bach-on: I don't want to be the "bad boy" here, but no one has pointed this out. Bear in mind that the day will come when the pipes will continue to play, but the digital voices will be dead. This pertains to any company- not slamming Walker Technical here, although they're smaller than Allen and Rodgers. Either the builder of the digi additions will have gone under, or the maker of the chips, or whatever. While you have Peterson electronics on your pipe organ, they support anything they ever made and try to avoid proprietary custom chips so they're a safer bet.
Read the comments in other forums by our experts like Arie to get a handle on digital organ longevity, and the outlook for the organ industry, to read more on this. Walker can't or won't support some of his old technology...
I'm an electronics tech with Uncle Sam (unrelated to musical instruments) and throw a LOT of equipment away, some quite new, because it has been orphaned by the manufacturer...
Sorry to be negative- just pointing this out.
Bill Miller. Norfolk VA
Allen S100, Continental Carousel, T-44; Galanti PI, Wurli 4480, etc.

[trompette en chamade]

I've heard a couple of local organs with Walker digital extensions. They can sound fine if voiced well, and if used well. Regarding number of audio channels, quantity of speakers, the effects of massed digital stops, and the deleterious effects of intermodulation distortion, I highly recommend that you read Colin Pykett's article, "The End of the Pipe Organ?", available at
http://www.pykett.org.uk/EndOfPipeOrgan.htm
It is a "slightly to somewhat" technical article, but it can be understood, and he includes an audio demonstration that is quite striking.

I'm not going to argue pipes vs. digital. You need to do what works for your church, after thoroughly researching your options, longevity and costs. I will add that there are also some organbuilders who are great at making something more of an instrument like yours. You might be surprised what they can do for the money involved, and what they can do with your existing space. They are surprisingly creative.

I want to address your query and your suggested additions from a strictly musical standpoint.

(This disregards expression and tremulant, by the way. John's suggestion that an entire division be created digitally really does make musical sense here, thanks to this organ's one-division design. Do note his advice to "not skimp on the audio," because here is where the intermodulation distortion will destroy you.)

I've rewritten your Estey specification in a list form to clarify my own thinking:

GREAT
8-4 Diapason/Octave unit
8-4 Flute unit (probably the same rank as the Swell?)
8 Salicional (undoubtedly the Swell rank)
8 Trumpet (undoubtedly the Swell)
Gt-Gt 16
Gt-Gt 4
Sw-Gt 8-4

SWELL
8 Stopped Diapason
8 Salicional
4 Flute (probably a unit extension of St. Diap.)
8 Trumpet
8 Oboe

PEDAL
16-8 Diapason unit (possibly just a 12-note extension of the manual Diapason?)
8-4 Flute unit (likely duplexed from manual)
8 Trumpet (duplexed from Swell)
Gt-Ped 8-4
Sw-Ped 8-4


From this, I'd guess this organ has 5 or 6 ranks: a Diapason, a Flute (certainly stopped, a Gedeckt), a Salicional, a Trumpet, and an Oboe. It may have an independent Pedal Diapason, or just a 16' extension. Seems more likely it would have had a pedal Bourdon, not a Diapason, for sure.

It is essentially a single-division organ playable from two manuals, with the attendant limitations. The extensive unification presents problems with missing notes in some musical textures, particularly contrapuntal ones.

It lacks any pitch above 4-foot, except that like a lot of smaller church organs, it was probably scaled and voiced with the super-octave couplers in mind, which take the Diapason and Flute to 2', so it's not devoid of brightness.

Because of the unification, despite the number of stops, you have one Diapason timbre, one flute, one string, and loud and soft versions of a conical reed timbre.

Now, where do you want to go? What tone needs to be "replaced," what reinforced, and what added? And do you want a big mixed bag of independent colors, or do you want to maintain a cohesive musical instrument with a solid, useful ensemble that also includes nice solo colors? I would consider the first option a mistake.

You were thinking:

Great additions under consideration:
8 Diapason (duplicates the existing rank)
4 Diapason (duplicates the existing rank)
2 Super Octave
8 Flute
4 Flute
2-2/3 Nazard
2 Flute
1-3/5 Tierce
Mixture
Celeste

Why would you want to pay to duplicate the Diapason at 8 & 4 feet? Possibly add an independent 4' digital to eliminate the missing-note unification problem. Then the existing 8' rank can be extended inexpensively--possibly with pipes, especially if it's already 73 notes, to serve at 2' also. An 8'-2' unit works much better than an 8'-4'.

If I were to add flutes at 8-4-2, I'd add three different colors, maybe an open flute, a Rohrflute, and a Waldflute. Done right, they can serve as a flute chorus and as three distinct solo voices.

I'd add a Nazard somewhere, but probably not one on each manual. If you're building a Cornet here, 8-4-2 2/3-2-1 3/5, then it is traditionally placed opposite the Clarinet or Krumhorn so that the French Classical repertoire can be played.

I love mixtures. Many people don't. I haven't heard an electronic one. I'd go hear one in person before deciding. That's one place I'd be concerned about intermodulation distortion.

Flute celeste? You're probably already going to add a string celeste to the Swell.



Swell additions under consideration:
8-4-2 unit Flute
8 Tromba (basically duplicates the Trumpet)
8 English Horn (basically duplicates the Oboe)
8 Krumhorn
2-2/3 Nazard
Mixture
Celeste
Chimes
Other bells

If I were adding digital stops, I wouldn't add a unit flute, but would again go for three distinct but complementary timbres.

Your existing Trumpet was meant to be loud. That's why it's (presumably!) under expression, and why there seems to be an oboe in addition. Are you looking at a Tromba just to get a broader trumpet sound? Not having heard the existing trumpet, I can't say, but I wonder why another trumpet.

I'd probably not choose an English Horn, either, unless its timbre was clearly, clearly different from the existing Oboe, to the rank-and-file ears of the congregation.

Krumhorn is OK, but many would prefer the rounder timbre of a Clarinet.

The string celeste is usually found on the Swell, so a digital Vox Celeste for the existing Salicional makes good sense.

Chimes, etc. work very well in digital.



Pedal additions under consideration:
32 Something
16 Diapason (duplicates existing rank)
16 Bourdon
8 Tromba
8 Diapason (duplicates existing rank)

I'd add a 32 only when the rest of the organ was tonally complete and in good musical balance. As small as the organ will still be after the additions, I'd think hard before adding it at all. People other than organists and organ enthusiasts don't hear them the same way we fanatics do. Our church has an 82-rank instrument, and the congregation doesn't generally like the pedal 32's under all of that.

16 Diapason--sure, if there's really no independent pedal rank now. Same for the Bourdon. And a Violone. And a Lieblichgedeckt. And a 16-8 mild pedal reed like a Fagotto (which would come long before a pedal 32 for me).

I'd rather have a complete pedal division than 15 more "interesting" color stops in the manuals, because there's not much musically worse than a shortage of appropriate pedal stops, leaving you with a honking big bass for a delicate passage. It's like having a great, balanced band that can play fabulous nuances at any dynamic level, but whose bass consists only of 49 sousaphones who can only play loudly.

Lots of small organs get by with one dynamic level of "hooooo" timbre in the pedal, but having a variety of musically useful colors and dynamics available enriches the entire character of the instrument. With pipes, you'd have to add another 900 square feet to do it, but this is where digital has one real advantage.

Have fun!

[Bach-On]

Dear Trompette en chamade,

I'm very impressed and humbled by your detailed analysis. Thanks ever so much for taking the time to organize this. I also appreciate the observations on the current organ and how it is arranged. .

I want and need to study your comments and recommendations before responding. This kind of thoughtful input requires a deliberative answer. Please give me a few days.

Again, Thank You!

Bach On

[pictureroll]

My Church has 20 Walker stops plus Walker chimes and harp. We have 6 amplifiers each with 2 channels producing 130 watts into 8 ohms and a frequency response of 5 cps to 70 k cps (Hz). Manual stops are divided by c side and c# side reversing sides at notes 13,25,37,49.
Most speakers are pointed towards the ceiling at an angle (not directly up but at a slight angle). Certain stops are in the swell box and certain others are unenclosed but operate by the single swell shoe (ie english horn;gamba & celeste;chimes).We have two 32' stops and these play through a Large pedal cabinet housing two 18" woofers with upper notes coming through smaller speakers.
Stops were voiced at the time of installation by a young man from Oregon under the direction of the organist we had at the time.About a year later by our request Bob Walker himself came and changed some of the voicing to much greater results.
We are very satisfied with the Walker voices.
We have combined a small Reuter (from 1963) with the Aeolian-Skinner ( opus 1272 1953 that was in the Mahattan School of Music NYC)plus the Walker voices.
We have 32 General Pistons ;Programmable Tutti;Crescendo(multi level);transposer(which goes back to neutral when gen cancel is pressed);bass coupler(handy for tuning by one self);melody coupler.We have 27 memories times 27 equaling 729 memories in all.
Dedication was Feb 15,2004 and was played by the late Gerre Hancock.
Kindest Regards,

Jerry F Bacon-Dallas,Texas

[Bach-On]

Pictureroll - that sounds like a very nice instrument. How large is your Sanctuary? And what are the acoustics in the room like? Do you feel the voicing is a good blend?

All our organ pipes are in a single chamber and one Shoe controls Volume. We have no exposed pipes. The Crescendo pedal can be programmed. Tutti - 10 generals, 6 pistons for each manual, 12 toe studs (6 for pedals, 6 for Generals). We've got over a hundred memories.

I was told that this Estey came from 3 different organs - including a Theater organ back in the late 30's. Some of the pipes still have the ornate paintwork on them. The console was converted to digital about 10 years ago. My biggest complaint is that the console is not up to AGO specs. So the pedals are slightly narrower than usual. I also have to be careful when I'm playing the Great that I don't press a piston right above - the clearance is pretty tight.

It is my understanding that we will be limited by the width of the console in how many rocker tabs we can have. Our technicians feels like he can fit 16 MORE tabse.

One thing I'm unclear about: do the couplers couple the digital voices as well as the pipes? My thoughts were to have all pipes and speakers enclosed. Having Antiphonal speakers would be nice - but that would add to the amps and speakers needed. And I doubt the budget will support that. I'd rather have more amps on the primary organ than have the Antiphonals - though they would be sweet!.

Please clarify this line from your post for me:
"Manual stops are divided by c side and c# side reversing sides at notes 13,25,37,49."

I assume some notes from each manual/pedalboard go to different channels and speakers. I don't quite understand the "reversing". You also indicated that some voices go in a separate Swell chamber. while others are exposed. Is it possible to program the Walker voices (diapasons, flutes, reeds, pedal) to go to some amps and speakers? Or do you just arrange speakers to fit the way the electronics are designed?

Our Tech said having Walker come and do the voicing is worth the money (around $5,000). Some of the later Walker models have a chip that adjusts tuning on the Walker voices to match the tuning on the pipes. Have you had any issue with intonation in your setup?

Thanks for sharing the information. I do want to provide my church with good and accurate advice. I'm trying to find out some instruments in our area that use this arrangement.

Bach On

[Bach-On]

Trompette - I've taken your observations and tinkered with the arrangement and the voices. I've included them below.



Elm City UMC Estey Organ
Possible Stop List After Walker Voices Added
All voices will be enclosed

GREAT Italics indicates Walker Voices
8 Diapason
8 Violon
8 Flute
8 Salicional (undoubtedly the Swell rank)
8 Celeste (used with 8 Flute or 8 Salicional as accompaniment for Swell Solo voices)
4 Octave
4 Flute unit (probably the same rank as the Swell?)
8 Trumpet (undoubtedly the Swell)
2 Waldflute (or possibly Piccolo)
2-2/3 Nazard (1-1/3 Tierce is another possibility)
2 Superoctave (PRETTY BRIGHT - Leaving off Mixture because of potential distortion)
Gt-Gt 4 (Not sure if any couplers will affect Walker voices)
Sw-Gt 16 (because of this – no plans for separate 16 voice on the Great)
Sw-Gt 8
Sw-Gt 4

SWELL Italics indicates Walker Voices
8 Viola de Gamba (or subdued horn – maybe a French Horn or Gemshorn?)
8 Diapason
8 Salicional
8 Celeste (I wonder about possible use of an Aeoline or Unda Maris)
8 Rohrflute Flute
4 Diapason
4 Flute (probably a unit extension of St. Diap.)
4 Koppel Flute (or possibly Harmonic Flute) - looking for a solo flute
2 Blockflute
8 Trumpet
8 Oboe
8 Clarinet – (or possibly a Wood Clarinet)
Chimes
Vibrato - only for the digital Swell voices
Sw-Unison Off – not sure if this will work with Walker Voices
4 Sw-Sw (not sure if this will affect Walker Voices)
Vibrato – entire organ (at least the existing pipes) – I almost never do full vibrato!!!

PEDAL Italics indicates Walker Voices
16 Diapason (I was going to add more because these are not very prominent)
16 Gemshorn
16 Bordon
8 Diapason (possibly a 12-note extension of the manual Diapason?)
8 Violon
8 Flute
4 Flute unit (likely duplexed from manual)
2 Rohrflute` (nor sure of this)
8 Trumpet (Considering changing this to a digital 16 Posaune)
Gt-Ped 8 (Not sure if any of the couplers will affect the Walker voices)
Gt-Ped 4
Sw-Ped 8
Sw-Ped 4

I would appreciate your observations and constructive criticism on the possible stop list.
And this goes for any observations.

Thanks again.

Bach On

[michaelhoddy]

That's a lot of stops for no mixture. I really don't think you need to worry about distortion. I've played the Walker voices on combo organs even in rather large churches and have yet to encounter it. They do a good job of providing enough amplification, speakers, and channelization that this is not an issue.

You absolutely need to get a 16' pedal reed. I would lose the 2' Rohrflote if it helped toward this goal- it's superfluous compared to either a 16' or 8' pedal reed. Getting a proper 16-8-4' pedal principal chorus either through the pipe ranks and/or the digital ranks is pretty important too.

In general, your spec seems like it lacks some clarity of purpose between the divisions and in the choruses. I know you're somewhat limited by having to work with what you have, but I feel this could be better sorted so as to present a more clearly defined organ. My suggestion would be to use the electronic additions to contrast and compliment what you already have in the pipes, rather than using them to duplicate sounds and basic effects that are already present.

For instance, a clarinet is nice to have in the Swell, but it fulfills the same purposes (solo reed, secondary chorus reed) as the Oboe already there, so it's redundant in a small 2-manual organ. Same with the Viola, 2' Great Flute (you already have a 2' flute in the Swell and a 2' stop in the great), Great Violon & Salicional, etc. Think in terms of major effects and divisional contrast rather than specific stops.

[Menschenstimme]

May I urge you to also add a 16-foot Walker reed to the Pedal division?

My residence organ is all-pipe and is 9 stops (11 ranks) which are tastefully unified. I stretched both the budget and space to have a 16-foot reed in the Pedal. It is a 73-note trumpet that plays at 16-8-4 on the Pedal and also at 8 on the Swell and the Great. This expensive reed rank is not used all that often, but it makes a very significant addition to the organ and changes it from a practice organ to a serious organ - in my humble opinion.

Good luck and God bless!

[Bach-On]

Please know that I really appreciate all input. I do note that some of the suggestions within this thread seem guided by individual tastes of the people making them. But all opinions are worthy of consideration. And I do find merit in many of them - though some are a little divergent.

I must admit that I don't know all the unification and borrowing possibilities for the pipes. So I'm probably leaning more to the digital voices here and there. Too, if we add extra pipes to create more unification possibilities, there won't be sufficient funds for a good Walker set-up.

Great - I recognize that having a Celeste here is not the norm. But I like having the flexibility. I guess my years of playing Allen organs has influenced me in this regard. But I do recognize that many may see this as non-traditional. I will have to go listen to an organ with Walker voices that has Mixtures. It has been my experience that pipe based mixtures are more prone to intonation problems. But electronic mixtures may not have the clarity.

Swell - My last stop list did include extra solo stops. My goal was to provide the organ with a little more variety. Yes. There probably are many people who won't be able to hear (or appreciate) the difference between an Oboe, an English Horn, and a Clarinet (the Wood Clarinet sounds to me less like a Reed that the metal pipe equivalent).

Pedal - I believe I have made a mistake. The current stop list has a 16 Lieblen Gedact, rather than the 16 Diapason. So adding a substantial 16 Diapason might provide a bigger foundation for diapasons played from the Great or Swell. Part of my thinking of adding a 16 Gemshorn was that the volume of the Walker voices could be adjusted. I was thinking this might provide a softer 16 foot stop for the pedals for when it might be needed. It might allow the flutes to predominate, but add a bit of 16 for lighter re-enforcement. But I'm not wedded to that if there are better options. The 8 Trumpet in the pedals is the same Trumpet as the Swell. and the Great. My thinking was to eliminate this stop from the Pedal and turn it into a 16 Pousane. For occasions when someone might want an 8 Trumpet in the pedal - I thought the 8 Gr-Pd or 8 Sw-Pd couplers could provide that.

I am finding your input helpful. And I have not made ANY firm decisions. So keep those cards and letters coming in, folks.

Thanks,

Bach On