1924 Estey church pipe organ

[zuulmusic]

A friend has acquired an old church and it contains a pipe organ dated 1924, which has been identified as: Estey Organ Co., Opus 2250, 1924 OHS Database ID 29760.

The rumor is that it has not been operable since the 70s.

There is a 2 manual console, and appears to be about 15 ranks. The blower is an Orgoblo 1-1/4 HP.

Right now there is no plans or money to do anything with the building however I'd like to see what I can do to get this organ operable.
I'm an electrical engineer and musician, and know a bit about pipe organs, so I would like to see what I can do to get things running without destroying anything.

I can work on getting more information and photos. I'm excited to work on this.
The pipe room appears in great shape other than dirt. Console looks like a lot of stuck keys. Pedals feel good. Swell shutters moved with some nasty crackly noises coming from little bellows that must control them.

Any tips on where to get started? I figure I would get the blower in working order, then check out the main bellows, and go from there. Any input / comments / ideas are welcome! Remember... no budget!

Thanks,
Bill

[myorgan]

Bill,

There is an organ builder in Cleveland by the name of Holtkamp (or some such spelling). They may be able to assist you. Also, check with some of the organ builders on this site, and they could help as well.

If you have photos you can share, they would be worth a thousand words. If the connections between the keyboards and pipes are mechanical (wooden sticks), that is one repair answer. However, if they are tubular pneumatic (probably lead tubes leading from the console to the chamber), then that is another answer. The crackling you heard could have been simply because the swell shades hadn't been moved in 40 years, or it could, indeed be the pneumatic motor moving for the first time in 40 years.

Take pictures of what "normal" people wouldn't think of photographing--like the mechanisms rather than the pipes. Taking pictures of the stop controls would also say a lot about the instrument.

Hope this helps. Welcome to the Forum.

Michael

[VaPipeorgantuner]

A friend has acquired an old church and it contains a pipe organ dated 1924, which has been identified as: Estey Organ Co., Opus 2250, 1924 OHS Database ID 29760.

The rumor is that it has not been operable since the 70s.

There is a 2 manual console, and appears to be about 15 ranks. The blower is an Orgoblo 1-1/4 HP.

Right now there is no plans or money to do anything with the building however I'd like to see what I can do to get this organ operable.
I'm an electrical engineer and musician, and know a bit about pipe organs, so I would like to see what I can do to get things running without destroying anything.

I can work on getting more information and photos. I'm excited to work on this.
The pipe room appears in great shape other than dirt. Console looks like a lot of stuck keys. Pedals feel good. Swell shutters moved with some nasty crackly noises coming from little bellows that must control them.

Any tips on where to get started? I figure I would get the blower in working order, then check out the main bellows, and go from there. Any input / comments / ideas are welcome! Remember... no budget!

Thanks,
Bill

Getting the blower going would be a good first step. the blower motor should have the info needed (voltage, current draw, etc). many times the old Spencer blowers used an induction-repulsion motor so as the motor gets close to it's operating speed (typically 1165 r.p.m.), the brushes >should< lift off the commutator so as not to grind the brushes and commutator into oblivion. typically these old Orgoblo units had Century (brand) motors.

Next you need to find out about the playing action....most likely the action will be electro-pneumatic, but could be tubular=pneumatic. the easy way to tell is to pop the lid on the console and look at the tail end of the manuals. By the way, if the console is built into the front cabinet of the organ, it is more likely to be tubular-pneumatic, if the console is detached from the body of the organ, it is more likely electro-pneumatic action.

Either way, the function of the chests will have NOTE primary actions and VENTIL stop actions. each stop will have a compartment (a.k.a. "pod") under each stop (or rank of pipes). the stop action can be either at one end of the chests, or off-center UNDER the pods. Estey used an interesting chest design that is mostly unique to their organs...not complicated to understand, but it CAN be complicated to disassemble, particularly if they are tubular-pneumatic chests.

One source of information you will find helpful at least at the beginning of this endeavour is to get what ever information from the Estey Organ Museum (google them for their website). They will have some info regarding the organ from their factory records.

If you will post photos and specific questions there are those of us in the organbuilding business that will do what we can to assist you...but much of what will be necessary to do to revive the organ to good playing condition will require the outlay of both funds and LOTS of time, with plenty of guidance from experienced organbuilder/tech types.

Rick in VA

[Terpodion]

As it has not been operable since the '70's, for sure the leather is shot. As an electrical engineer, you should easily be able to understand and repair the electrical part of it. But the leather part takes some experience. Don't get me wrong, it's nothing you can't learn with some trial and error - plenty of amateurs have. Finding the right materials is a challenge though, particularly at affordable prices. If you decide to tackle it, let me know and I'll hook you up. I have accounts with suppliers and a direct link to a tannery.

[Pipeorganbuilder]

Google "Columbia Leather" for a source that many of use for our pipe organ leather supplier. After you posts some picture, many of use will be glad to help.

[zuulmusic]

I uploaded a bunch of photos to google+, should be accessible here: https://plus.google.com/photos/11672...19655883057393
I titled all the files but looks like google isn't showing you those. So sorry they are now kind of random.

I oiled up and started the blower just fine. There's a rectifier box in the blower room that looks like it replaced the disconnected 10v generator, but I haven't tried it out until I figure out the wiring.
The blowers filled up without falling apart to my surprise, some small leaks. The other exposed leather components are all shot and look like broken pieces of paper (see pics). The leather pouches operating the swell shades look ok.

[Menschenstimme]

The stop action in the console looks like Klann.

[rohrlover]

Nice pics - thanks for posting. They bring back some nice memories of the Estey I had.

[trompette en chamade]

Hi Bill,

Had a look at your pictures. That exposed leather certainly is shot! I'm not familiar with the Estey primary actions, but it looked like some magnets operated disc valves, while others operated leathered pneumatics. I realize that at least some of those are on offset chests, but if the note primaries have perished leather, nothing is going to play without releathering.

Every pipe is going to have an individual pneumatic inside the chest, too. They may be in better shape, but if not, there's a ton of releathering there, too.

The stop action in the console, ostensibly by Klann, is a replacement from later years. I imagine that the rectifier replaced the belt-driven DC dynamo at the same time. The rectifier unit likely uses a selenium rectifier, which as you know, will have risen in resistance with age, causing voltage drop under load, and is likely to die in a cloud of noxious smoke.

One thing I once encountered with the old cotton-covered wire...all of it throughout the chamber looked fine, but where the harness went through a hole in the floor on its way to the console, water had rotted the insulation entirely away, leaving a nice bundle of about 60-some-odd wires shorted together.

I second the recommendation of Columbia Organ Leathers.

[myorgan]

Bill,

Thanks for sharing the photos. That's the first time I've seen wooden pipes with metal haskelling (sp?). Nice documentation of the present condition of the instrument. Oddly enough, the stops listed on the organ look almost exactly like those on my pipe organ. You may have filled in some missing information for me!

Thanks again for sharing.

Michael

[samzer]

There's a very interesting vintage residential 1928 Estey three manual console listed on Ebay. Sadly, No pipes or other parts.

http://www.--------/itm/2845-CUSTOM-...item1e86d1a4de

[zuulmusic]

Update-
The solid state power supply is definitely toast, so I wired up the original 10 volt DC generator still attached to the Orgoblo base (found the belt!), and got the thing fired up. To my surprise most of a flute rank is playing, and the crescendo pedal seems to be turning on some other ranks. The great keyboard is shot, so I had to stuff foam under the keys to silent things. There are definitely a bunch of coupler stuck on. It seemed that most notes took about 20 tries before they played. Doesn't sound too bad for 40 years of silence and dust!
At this point there is some interest to restore the thing but no money. I'd like to try inexpensive ways to get more and more working; I think having it make some sounds will attract interest. (I can start with tuning that flute!)

[Terpodion]

This thread has captured my interest.

Your friend bought the church. It is fantastic that he wants to keep the organ and that you want to make it sing again. I get calls from time to time from people who have bought an old church and they just want to get rid of the organ. Usually it gets trashed. But what does your friend intend to use the church for? Is he going to renovate it and live in it? Is he going to open it to the public in some capacity? Not that it matters, the important thing is that he is keeping the organ and it will apparently be played - with some TLC from you. I'm just curious.

I see a LOT of old organs that are in rotten shape and quite a few which have suffered at the hands of well meaning amateurs.

>I'd like to try inexpensive ways to get more and more working;<

Well good, but don't do anything that will be difficult to undo. For instance: Don't glue leather or felt on with anything except hide glue or fish glue. Elmers, wood glue, Gorilla Glue and anything else that you can buy at Home Depot or a hardware store is murder to remove when it comes time to recover a bellows, repack stoppers or refelt a balance rail. I recommend fish glue. You don't need a glue pot and it is fairly inexpensive. Duct tape is a big no-no in the trade. But as you aren't in the trade and aren't being paid by a customer who expects professional craftsmanship, have at it. It comes right off when it comes time to replace a gusset. It might leave some residue but such is not nearly as bad as scraping off hardened globs of Elmers with a chisel. That flute that you are talking about tuning will probably be difficult to impossible to tune if it is a stopped flute. The leather packing has got to be shot. I once "repacked" an 1892 organs Stopped Diapason with baggies - as a temporary measure until we could rebuild the whole organ. It worked quite well. You just pull out the stopper, put it in a baggie and stuff it back in. If it it too loose, use two baggies (or three...).

>At this point there is some interest to restore the thing but no money.<

Well this gets back to your friend again - and you too. You don't have to spend tens of thousands to get an organ working fairly well if you are doing the work yourself. The vast majority of the materials for organs like this are not expensive at all. You and your friend couldn't stuff a
twenty in a jar once a week until you have a few hundred? What we are talking about here is felt, leather and glue. Yep, leather is expensive - if you buy it from Columbia Organ Leathers or Organ Supply. That's why I buy it from Adjon - a tannery in the "Leather Stocking" region of New York State. Where do you think Columbia and OSI get it from? It is about half the price of the stuff the organ supply outfits sell and it is the same stuff. You just have to speak "leatherese." They don't call it "pneumatic leather" or "packing leather" in the leather trade. Call them and tell them that the organbuilder from New Jersey sent you and you want the same stuff he orders. You want 1.25 to 1.5 oz for packing, gaskets and bellows and 0.75 oz for pneumatics. 518 725 3357.

Felt and glue can be had from Arndt Organ Supply - 515 964 1274. They aren't like (pun intended) the other supply outfits who will only sell to the trade. They do a lot of business with the amateur theater organ organizations. The last I checked a gallon of fish glue was about $40.00. A gallon lasts me about two years.

I estimate that $400 to $500 will get you just about everything you need to restore this organ. You don't need 2,000 direct chest magnets @ $5.85 a piece or a $15,000 Peterson relay. But you will need to put in many, many hours taking things apart and putting them back together; that's the organman's mantra: Take it apart, put it together. Repeat.

There are however finishing touches that can get expensive. If the tuners on the pipes are rusted, it is wise to replace them. That can run into the thousands. It takes special machinery to make them. But some organbuilders used galvanized tuners and brass. These don't suffer from rust - it is the "coke tin" ones that can get as rusty as a 1980s Datsun. A lot of missing ivories might necessitate having the keys recovered. Not cheap at all - almost as expensive as new keyboards. But old keyboards can be reconditioned by gluing on recycled ivories - if you can get them. I "harvest" them from old keys by steaming them off with an iron and a wet cloth. You can usually find old keyboards fairly cheap on eBay. Glue them on with rubber cement. Water based glues make them "curl up." Arndt also sells synthetic replacement ivories. The rest of reconditioning keyboards is just gluing little pieces of felt in the right spots and twisting on leather / poly nuts. The same for pedalboards. Not difficult once you get the hang of it.

One thing that I will strongly recommend is cleaning the organ thoroughly and this costs practically nothing. Take out the pipes, storing them carefully out of the way (don't stack them like cordwood like the "barn organs" that I see on eBay which have been more or less ruined) and vacuum the windchests along with everything else. This will make working on it a lot more pleasant and will help keep dust out of sensitive parts like primaries. It is also a good idea to take off the rack boards, give them a light sanding with fine paper and shoot them with a clear finish. Lacquer looks best - $3.50 a can at Home Depot.

Conceivably, if you releathered the organ, cleaned it, lacquered the wooden parts, got all the electrical working and replaced the tuners, it would look and sound so good that you could have a delegation from the Organ Historical Society come in and they would be so impressed that they would present you with a certificate of merit. Except for the tuners, this can all be done for under $1,000. If the tuners aren't rusted, buff them with 0000 steel wool. This works for pipes too, makes them shine like a National Guitar.

Sorry for being long winded but if my experience can help rescue an old organ I'm more than willing to help. Let me know if you need any more tips such as removing book pneumatics without destroying them.

[Pipeorganbuilder]

Great advice! Just take your time and you will be rewarded.