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  • #31
    Re: Physics of organ tuning

    What was the reference pitch that was used to tune instruments centuries ago,
    Well, IIRC then it was Archimedes or Pythagoras who did the first research into pitch, defining octaves, thirds etc.

    A nice overview of pitch in "recent centuries":http://www.mozartpiano.com/pitch.html

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    • #32
      Re: Physics of organ tuning

      [quote user="OLDESTWISEOWL"]ACC was from the 1840s to 1890s specifically 1898 when he sold to C. Mutin. Which English builders are you comparing to when you say English organs?

      If you have in mind 20th century organs like Willis or Harrisons then is it apples to oranges?

      How much wind did ACC have to use in his work?
      Could ne generate great power? His reeds are raucous and blatant noisy not refined or restrained. They overpower all flues including mixtures. So for volume you would rely on choruses of reeds from Positif to Recit to Grand orgue to Bombarde etc and Pedale.

      English organs had DIAPASONS , TROMBAS, TUBAS, CORNOPEANS, HARMONICS IV, and lots of other fat sounds and thick ones. Basses were thunderous open woods 32 16 and trombones ophicleides of great fundamental.

      The English and the French ACC are very different creations.[/quote]

      Steve, what are these opinions based on? Have you personally visited any of the remaining organs built by Cavaille-Coll?

      Cetainly C-C favored healthy compliments of reed stops but he also ackowledged in his own writings his feelings that his predecessor Cliquot had greater skill in the construction and voicing of reeds. In fact some of the most famed C-C organs retained reeds from previous Cliquot instruments.

      Poorly maintained and tuned in the early 20th century through the postwar era, the great C-C organs of Paris were known for their "out-of-tuneness" and to a certain degree it was this loosely tuned character that came to be associated with French organs in general.

      If one compares, for example, Stephen Tharp's recent recording at St. Sulpice, now that the organ has been cleaned and restored there is marked contrast to the early recordings of the instrument. Anyone who has listened to the recently rereleased compilation: "Orgues et organistes francais du XX siecle" (1900-1950) can testify to this marked difference.

      Also it should be noted that Cavaille-Coll was personally more interested in ensemble and the introduction of harmonic pipes. Characterizing him as obsessed with "raucous, overpowering reeds" is a discredit to the body of his work.

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      • #33
        Re: Physics of organ tuning

        GD Harrison upon arrival to the USA immediately incorporated Willis models of chorus reeds in Skinner organs then under contract like U of Michigan Ann Arbor and Princeton etc. His fascination with french began in 1931 with the Trumpet harmonique 8 on 25" for yale which oscar pearson voiced as the first specimen of parallel shallots. It is identical to the Tuba mirabilis next to it except for the shallot design.

        later in the 1930s GDH and Sen Richards in conversation at Moose Head on vacations talked about moderate to low wind for french type reeds like 3".

        The remark about continental reeds being raucus was from Henry Willis III. Of course you didn't know that coz you don't study do you?
        If you did you have known that he said that not I. he liked his smooth English reeds and not continental blatant noisy ones.

        Since your agenda is to discredit all I say on every post you fell for that didn't you?
        too bad your scholarship is so lacking, so shallow that you make such a big blunder and make a fool out of yourself. i have heard a reed from the shop of ACC at West Point made by Mutin and it is wonderful. Aeolian-skinner cut the double block off in 1955. Its magnificent in tone and eclat.

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        • #34
          Re: Physics of organ tuning



          [quote user="Richard Haller"]Also it should be noted that Cavaille-Coll was personally more interested in ensemble and the introduction of harmonic pipes. Characterizing him as obsessed with "raucous, overpowering reeds" is a discredit to the body of his work.[/quote]







          Quite true. Cavaille-Coll's ensembles were not overpowered by the reeds. That is why they were called "symphonic organs". If you want to hear raucous reeds, I suggest you try a neo-baroque, or Italian, or Spanish organ.

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          • #35
            Re: Physics of organ tuning



            [quote user="OLDESTWISEOWL"] The remark about continental reeds being raucus was from Henry Willis III. Of course you didn't know that coz you don't study do you? If you did you have known that he said that not I. [/quote]







            So were you "channeling" H. Willis when YOU typed those words? You indeed did say them, even if you were parroting someone else. Henry Willis also paid a compliment to the ACCHOS organ when he heard it. Do you know what he said?

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            • #36
              Re: Physics of organ tuning

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              • #37
                Re: Physics of organ tuning

                that is not specific but I WAS SPECIFIC when i wrote that about ac-c reeds

                continental was willis-iii way of saying anything non-uk

                the descrpitions of the reeds as blatant and noisy was in comparision to smoother english chorus reed models as perceived by willis-iii

                they were LOUD but not noisy

                u go figure the difference and come back and explain it

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                • #38
                  Re: Physics of organ tuning

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                  • #39
                    Re: Physics of organ tuning

                    willis did not coin that term

                    it was generally used then asit continues to be down to this day

                    so ur point doesnt really make too much sense


                    reeds on the continent were less refined than british models as a general rule

                    the tapered shallots of uk reeds produced rounded tones dark chocolate sounds

                    the domed parallel of france germany and elsewhere were brite incisive and downright fiery like the spanish trompetas and clarinas

                    to conservative and stuffy uk ears it was noise

                    to acc it was eclat emotion passion a drink of wine a sip of cafe a croissant

                    2 different worlds so close yet so far

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                    • #40
                      Re: Physics of organ tuning

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                      • #41
                        Re: Physics of organ tuning

                        only if u have a chip on ur shoulder to begin with- quote out of context and rest ur case like a DA and not a friendly humble fellow forum member willing to share knowledge but instead intent on finding something to discredit with like ur friend

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