How many ranks would be needed for a small unified pipe organ with these stops?

[james]

Flutes from 16' through 2' with 2 2/3' and 1 3/5' on the SW
Diapason 16' through 2' and 1 1/3' on the GT
A Flute 8' on the GT
Trumpet 8' on the SW.
Pedals at Diapason 16' Flute 16' Flute 8'

This would make an idea pipe organ for me after reading about the Moller Artistie models. Of coarse the stops must have classic names.

James

[Mirabilis]

Don't extend the 2 2/3 and 1 3/5 from the unison. Not worth it. Absolutely NO USE for a 1 1/3 rank. The name on
the knob is nowhere near as important as the actual sound.

[Menschenstimme]

My residence organ has an INDEPENDENT 1-1/3 rank on the Swell (and a Mixture III on the Great). The 1-1/3 is very useful. I can also do things with Swell Unison Off and Swell to Swell 16.

[Havoc]

And with a 2 2/3 and 1 3/5 you can have a Cornet.

Don't know how that would sound with so much unification. And having nothing but flutes, even if it is from 16' to 2' with that trumpet looks also a bit strange.

[james]

My residence organ has an INDEPENDENT 1-1/3 rank on the Swell (and a Mixture III on the Great). The 1-1/3 is very useful. I can also do things with Swell Unison Off and Swell to Swell 16.

Then the fractional stops should be from a separate rank.

What would be a good solo reed in lieu of the Trumpet? I thought of Oboe 8'.



James

[davidecasteel]

The 2 2/3' and 1 1/3' stops can fairly successfully be borrowed from the regular ranks, but 1 3/5' should definitely not be so derived, because the even-tempered scale does not well approximate the pitches of that stop.

Assuming one Diapason rank for all Divisions, it would need to be 97 pipes to cover 16' through 2'; a few more at the top for the 1 1/3' (or just repeat the lower octave for those few).

The Flute rank would also need to be 97 pipes, with a separate 61-pipe rank for the 1 3/5' stop.

A mild Trumpet at 8' (61 pipes) would be OK, but some folks like an Oboe or Basson/Hautbois instead. And I have read that a few people go for a Krummhorn.

All things considered, it could be done with just 4 ranks, 2 of 97 pipes and 2 of 61. That would be the minimum, though, and providing 2 Diapason ranks or 2 Flute ranks (one stopped) might be more desirable.

David

[myorgan]

Then the fractional stops should be from a separate rank.

What would be a good solo reed in lieu of the Trumpet? I thought of Oboe 8'.

James,

If you can, at least one should be separate because of the tuning/temperament issues. If you check out my post on the German Organ Weekend, you'll find a German organ I ran into recently that may be able to provide you a good starting place. Of course, that stoplist is all straight/mechanical ranks, but it provides a great bit of variety, considering the stops included.

I'd choose an Oboe 8' as an alternate. A Vox Humana is too unique, and a Krummhorn is also too specialized. A good Oboe has enough qualities to be useful either as a solo reed or ensemble. Remember, having the Reed stop will add at least 1 rank to your specification.

Michael

[james]

Many thanks guys for your input. I find this all very educational, and I have been spending time listening to the Moller Artistie Organs on YouTube. They sound amazing with only a few ranks. The local Catholic church has an organ with six ranks, and somewhere around here I have the specs sheet.

I think I would prefer a Bassoon/Oboe for a small organ in lieu of the Trumpet 8'. I do like a good reed in the Pedals, and a Bassoon fits that just fine for me.

James

[Sathrandur]

Well if you are borrowing ranks and extending them, you would need six ranks (separate rank for 2 2/3' and 1 1/3' and a separate rank for the tierce). That's the simple answer.

If you have the means and the space, you may wish to avoid borrowing too much and have for example two flute ranks of differing quality. And if you can afford it, extend the Trumpet to 16' for the pedal, even if you use half-length resonators for the bottom octave. You will thank me later if you can do it.

[Menschenstimme]

And if you can afford it, extend the Trumpet to 16' for the pedal, even if you use half-length resonators for the bottom octave. You will thank me later if you can do it.

Amen! That is exactly what I did with my residence organ and I could barely afford it at the time - best investment I ever made.

[Dave S.]

Another vote here for keeping the mutations out of the unison rank; after playing a number of organs where the mutations were derived from the unison, you'll be much more pleased with them as separate ranks. My own 3 rank unit organ does have a 2-2/3 from the stopped flute, only because it's (sometimes) mildly tolerable when used as a solo stop on top of the 8' flute. It was planned as a "functional" preparation for future expansion.

[michaelhoddy]

Unified mutations are somewhat more tolerable in a large room with good acoustics where distance and reverberation mellows the tuning and scaling issues, but in a residence organ, they'd be horribly screechy and annoying. Even if you do a TC rank for the mutation to save money, it's a better and far more usable choice.

And if it were me, I'd much rather have another independent 8' or 4' rank on such a small organ than a mutation of any stripe. The additional rank will get a lot more use and provide a lot more color. A string or gemshorn would be a nice addition.

Also, at least in new pipes, the 12 notes of your 16' pedal diapason extension are by themselves at least if not more costly than a whole additional 8' rank somewhere else in the organ.

[trompette en chamade]

Flutes from 16' through 2' with 2 2/3' and 1 3/5' on the SW

To echo some of the previous posts, I'd avoid derived mutations. While you can possibly get away with a unified Nazard at 2-2/3', depending on your tolerance for ill tuning, you cannot get away with a Tierce tuned to equally-tempered thirds.

A mutation is not "just another pitch sounding at the twelfth or seventeenth." It is meant to meld into the foundation pitch, to become one in a synthesized timbre. Its pitch must interlock with the overtones of the foundation tone. To do this, it must be perfectly, purely in tune. Any quint mutation is tuned beat-free in pure fifths against the foundation pitch, and tierces are tuned in pure thirds, which are a substantial 14 cents flatter than equally tempered thirds. If you use derived mutations, you'll never achieve synthesis. The tierce, especially, will be intolerable.

A second factor is also necessary. The mutation pitch must be softer than the foundation, which you cannot achieve from a unit rank. At an equal volume level, they are distasteful. Additionally, mutations often use a different pipe form to insure best blend and synthesis.

You can, of course, use a 73-note rank to create a purely-tuned mutation at both 2-2/3 and 1-1/3.


Diapason 16' through 2' and 1 1/3' on the GT

You can do 16-2 with a 97 note rank. You will have voice leading problems, most noticeable in counterpoint. You'll reach for a top "C," for example, and it won't articulate because it's already being used by a "C" in the texture an octave lower, in the 2' stop. The net result is that sometimes notes go missing.

This can be minimized by less unification...you can unify 16-4 and 8-2 in two separate ranks, but each of these will need 85 pipes.

If this is a residence organ, the 16' Diapason doesn't need to be very strong, and unifying it from the one mega-Diapason rank will likely make it overwhelming when drawn in chorus. This is similar in principle to the mutations needing to be softer.

A 1-1/3' Octave Quint will again be out of tune if derived. I like having a 2-2/3 Twelfth and a 1/1-3 available. It gives you some of the sparkle of a mixture to have the 1-1/3 up there.


A Flute 8' on the GT

One 61-pipe rank, your choice, but I'd make it far different from the Swell unit flute.


Trumpet 8' on the SW

Again, 61 pipes. An assertive Oboe is nice for a small instrument, serving as a solo stop under expression, a chorus reed, and something of a Trumpet with the shades open. A true Trumpet, unless specifically scaled and voiced for a residence organ, can easily be intolerable. Way intolerable.


Pedals at Diapason 16' Flute 16' Flute 8'

In a bigger organ, the 16' Pedal Diapason will be a larger scale, more powerful than the 16' Great Diapason. Here, you might be able to get away with duplexing them. I would definitely duplex the Swell unit flute at 16 and 8 (and probably 4), as well as adding GT-PED and SW-PED couplers at 8 and 4.


Minimums, for me: 6 ranks, 438 (450) pipes

Flutes from 16' through 2' with 2 2/3' and 1 3/5' on the SW
* 97 pipe unit flute
* 61 pipe Nazard, or 73 pipes to include 1-1/3'
* 61 pipe Tierce

Diapason 16' through 2' on the GT
* 97 pipe Diapason (if you really want open pipes all the way down to 16'...they're 18 feet long if unmitered)

A Flute 8' on the GT
* 61 pipes

Trumpet 8' on the SW [or Oboe]
* 61 pipes

Pedals at Diapason 16' Flute 16' Flute 8'
Duplex all of it


If I were doing this, I'd scrounge at least a string and celeste. The Swell is all flute and the Great has principals and one flute. I want more variety. While the string usually lives in the Swell, I think I'd put this one in the Great, since you have a lot of solo flute color in the Swell with the mutations. Better yet, I'd put the strings on a unit chest and make them playable from both manuals, usable as accompaniment under any of the myriad flutes or the diapasons.

If you really want to conserve pipework, you could make your flute unit playable from both manuals, eliminating the Great flute. Unless that Great stop is clearly different in character, I'd rather duplex the unit flute and put something contrasting in place of the Great flute.

I'd add a 73-note 2-2/3 & 1-1/3 Quint to the Great, myself, voiced as mutations for the Diapasons.

[Guest]

My residence organ has most of the features you require using 6 ranks.
Flute (open after the first 30 notes) 16, 8, 4, 2 2/3, 2, 1 3/5 on great
8, 4, 2 on swell
16, 8 on pedal
Stopped flute. 16(tc), 8, 4 on great
8, 4. On swell
8 on pedal
String. 8, 4 on great
8, 4 on swell
8 on pedal
Donaldson 16, 8, 4 on great
8, 4 on swell
16, 8 on pedal
Trumpet. 16(tc), 8 on great
8 on swell
8 on pedal
Vox Humana. 16(tc), 8. On great
16(tc), 8, 4 on swell
The trumpet is a mild tonality that blends well with the flutes.
A mixture effect can be obtained using the string 4, flute 2 2/3, 2.

By appropriate selection of stops, it is possible to have nice sounding ensembles on each manual that are independent.
The pedal has two manual to pedal couplers to be able to get a bigger pedal.

[davidecasteel]

"Donaldson" stop? Do you mean "Diapason"?

I'm surprised that you are satisfied with the unified 1 3/5' stop--most organists find that mutation derived from even-tempered octave ranks unsatisfactory.

David