If it hasn't already been said, I think most theatre organists would be perfectly satisfied with it, David. By the time you've added the tremulants, any undesirable beats are pretty much hidden. Add some other stops and they're even more hidden.
Classical, ah, that's a different story, but Allan is describing a home Wurlitzer.
It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.
I occasionally use the 1 3/5 as part of a corner without triumphant and find it ok. Definitely the 1 3/5 I more out of tune than the 2 2/3 so is not used as much. It is what I have so that is what is used, adding a real 1 3/5 would not be useful enough for the music that I mostly play.
As observed above, my organ is a home Wurlitzer which is used for popular music and light classics. The stops described in my post serve me quite well for both types of music. The downside of the extensive unification is that the organist must carefully select stops that cause missing notes. This in some ways is an advantage that it is possible to create a wide range of tone colors to add interest to playing.
Dear James (and other Members following this thread)
I tend to agree that you should try to keep your mutations pure. A few years ago I derived a Tierce 1 3/5 from the stopped flute rank of my one practice organ. Nowadays I hardly ever use it. The difference in Cents (400 derived vs 386 pure) is quite big, where-as with a derived Nazard 2 2/3 it isn't that big (700 derived vs 702 pure).
I've managed to rescue a Nazard 2 2/3 -> 1 1/3 and a Tierce 1 3/5 from an organ totally destroyed by water damage and wood borer. These ranks are of spotted metal and were made by Laukhuff - I would love to add them to my residence instrument at some stage.
Somewhere in the past, if I'm not mistaking, I read in one of these threads about another "trick":
One takes a String rank, from 8' TC all the way up with enough pipes to also have a 1 3/5'. One then tunes the 1 3/5 pure, so when it gets used as a Tierce 1 3/5, you have a pure mutation. However, if it gets drawn at 8', it can be used as a Voix Celeste 8' TC together with another string rank.
I've never came across a setup like the one described above. I don't even know if it will be very successful. My Laukhuff-Tierce is quite a wide-scaled flute, so I assume it's already dodgy using a String-rank for a Tierce?
If you have a second flute rank, or maybe a Gemshorn like some of the other members suggested, and your mutations are pure, you should be able to create quite a nice Cornet V-effect, in lieu of a real reed. Okay, also depending on the voicing, room acoustics, etc. At my parents' church, one can compose a beautiful Cornet V on their EF Walcker organ by selecting 5 individual stops on the Swell. During my first practice session at the church, I've selected the 5 individual stops as the CF for my Bach-piece. I've stopped two or three times, checking to see if I've accidentally also selected a swell reed!!!
If your suggested disposition is for a residence instrument, the Principal 16 bottom octave-extension may take up quite a lot of space. Well, if you have sufficient space and nice acoustics for the sound to bloom, by all means. I've also salvaged a Haskell bottom octave of a Principal 16' from that same organ. I'm not sure how a Haskelled Principal 16' will sound (I assume it will be more stringy?) but it does take up far less space. When I find the time, I guess I must plant them on an offset and hook it up to my residence instrument to experiment and evaluate the effect.
Best wishes.
PJ
- - - Updated - - -
Dear James (and other Members following this thread)
I tend to agree that you should try to keep your mutations pure. A few years ago I derived a Tierce 1 3/5 from the stopped flute rank of my one practice organ. Nowadays I hardly ever use it. The difference in Cents (400 derived vs 386 pure) is quite big, where-as with a derived Nazard 2 2/3 it isn't that big (700 derived vs 702 pure).
I've managed to rescue a Nazard 2 2/3 -> 1 1/3 and a Tierce 1 3/5 from an organ totally destroyed by water damage and wood borer. These ranks are of spotted metal and were made by Laukhuff - I would love to add them to my residence instrument at some stage.
Somewhere in the past, if I'm not mistaking, I read in one of these threads about another "trick":
One takes a String rank, from 8' TC all the way up with enough pipes to also have a 1 3/5'. One then tunes the 1 3/5 pure, so when it gets used as a Tierce 1 3/5, you have a pure mutation. However, if it gets drawn at 8', it can be used as a Voix Celeste 8' TC together with another string rank.
I've never came across a setup like the one described above. I don't even know if it will be very successful. My Laukhuff-Tierce is quite a wide-scaled flute, so I assume it's already dodgy using a String-rank for a Tierce?
If you have a second flute rank, or maybe a Gemshorn like some of the other members suggested, and your mutations are pure, you should be able to create quite a nice Cornet V-effect, in lieu of a real reed. Okay, also depending on the voicing, room acoustics, etc. At my parents' church, one can compose a beautiful Cornet V on their EF Walcker organ by selecting 5 individual stops on the Swell. During my first practice session at the church, I've selected the 5 individual stops as the CF for my Bach-piece. I've stopped two or three times, checking to see if I've accidentally also selected a swell reed!!!
If your suggested disposition is for a residence instrument, the Principal 16 bottom octave-extension may take up quite a lot of space. Well, if you have sufficient space and nice acoustics for the sound to bloom, by all means. I've also salvaged a Haskell bottom octave of a Principal 16' from that same organ. I'm not sure how a Haskelled Principal 16' will sound (I assume it will be more stringy?) but it does take up far less space. When I find the time, I guess I must plant them on an offset and hook it up to my residence instrument to experiment and evaluate the effect.
Theatre organs used unified ranks for flute/tibia mutations, and although not ideal, it's been done often. I am not fond of Tierces, but that's my ears. I like a 1-1/3 stop--used with an 8' flute, it can be a very delicate but bright combination.
An oboe is probably a more useful stop in a home organ, but an organ oboe is really just a small scaled trumpet. I'd prefer a Krummhorn, yes, it is distinctive, but most are usually voiced to allow good blend.
The problem in any small unit pipe organ is having a stop for accompaniment on the Great with the Swell solo registrations. The typical open diapason is probably too loud. A soft open flute, dulciana, or gemshorn would be valuable for this purpose.
For a luxury stop, I'd add a flute celeste to the great--most everyone will probably think a string celeste should be the 1st celeste on an organ, but I think the flute celeste is a better option. It's soft enough and more gentle than the string and let's the organ purr and whisper. The string celeste is too obvious to perform those functions.
I have really enjoyed a small pipe organ I have been hearing on YouTube. David Christensen is playing a small organ that a church has rebuilt with a few ranks. If any of you get a chance to to hear this nice organ it is worth the time. The piece I am listening to now is Two Choral Preludes from the Little Organ Book - J. S. Bach There is a stop list below the bit of info about this organ.
Can any of you tell me how many ranks are needed to form those stops? It appears the organ has 3 ranks of Principal, Gedeckt, and Dulzian pipes. Also the mutations are 2 2/3' and 1 3/5'. Apparently one of the mutations comes from the Flute rank, and the other from the Principal rank. The only addition I would add to this stop list would be a Bourdon 16' in the Swell.
James
Baldwin Church Organ Model 48C
Baldwin Spinet 58R
Lowrey Spinet SCL
Wurlitzer 4100A
Crown Pump Organ by Geo. P. Bent, Chicago, Illinois
Organs I hope to obtain in the future:
Conn Tube Minuet or Caprice even a transistor Caprice with the color coded tabs
Gulbransen H3 or G3, or V.
Wurlitzer 44, 4410, 4420, ES Reed Models, 4300, 4500, Transistor Models
As a manual have 61 keys, do that mean there have to be 61 pipes? Do that mean for every rank there have to be 61 pipes? Can someone perhaps explain please?
As a manual have 61 keys, do that mean there have to be 61 pipes? Do that mean for every rank there have to be 61 pipes? Can someone perhaps explain please?
As I understand it, in a unified organ, it's typical to have pipes number 73 or 85 to a rank so that it can be played at 16ft and 4ft pitch without missing low and high octaves. The 8ft rank uses just the "middle" 61 notes. Same would apply, naturally, to a 4ft rank being expended with 12 more pipes to serve as a 2ft if desired.
Casey
As a manual have 61 keys, do that mean there have to be 61 pipes? Do that mean for every rank there have to be 61 pipes? Can someone perhaps explain please?
John,
May I suggest you check the link at this thread? SubBase has given you a good definition, as well as providing all the variations to that answer. Hopefully the link in my previous post in another thread will provide the information you seek.
In reading another site about selecting ranks for a home organ, it was strongly suggested that the most important ranks be included first. The luxury ranks that would be nice but not used very often should be omitted until the essential ranks are included.
In reading another site about selecting ranks for a home organ, it was strongly suggested that the most important ranks be included first. The luxury ranks that would be nice but not used very often should be omitted until the essential ranks are included.
You would think that this would be obvious, but I have seen church installations that broke this rule. I once played one that had only one reed, an 8' trumpet, in the Pedal! The church was not large, but could afford a complete organ, but they allowed the current organist to design it the way he wanted it, instead of thinking about the next organist, who might want to do more than simply pedal Cantus Firmus!
Mike
My home organ is a Theatre III with an MDS II MIDI Expander.
If going into a church, it would be highly desirable to have the 8' foundation stops independent ranks. The 4' and 2' ranks work well unified.
A separate rank for the 2-2/3' is desirable. From this rank you can also get a 1-1/3' which you may find useful. I would also recommend a separate rank for the 1-3/5'.
Think about getting the pedal reed at 4' It won't require any more pipes, and will allow you to play cantus firmus in chorales.
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