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Voix Celeste OR Unda Maris

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  • Voix Celeste OR Unda Maris

    Morning,

    I am currently in thought about adding a Voix Celeste OR an Unda Maris to my organ which has a Dulciana and a Salicional. My thought was to add an Unda Maris so I can use the Dulciana/Unda Maris to accompany the Salicional as a solo stop.

    Thoughts??

  • #2
    My first choice of a celeste is a flute celeste, so I would suggest an Unda Maris before a Voix Celeste.

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    • #3
      Aren't Unda Maris usually flatted and Voix Celeste usually sharped? Does that matter?

      David

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      • #4
        Originally posted by solovoxhumana View Post
        I am currently in thought about adding a Voix Celeste OR an Unda Maris to my organ which has a Dulciana and a Salicional. My thought was to add an Unda Maris so I can use the Dulciana/Unda Maris to accompany the Salicional as a solo stop.
        I'd recommend the Voix Celeste, as that is the stop "traditionally" coupled with the Salicional--especially for French Romantic music. I've also never run into a "real" Unda Maris stop in the last 3 decades (except for once--and it was out for repair). The Voix Celeste, I use at least 2-3 times per month.

        That said, however, I wouldn't mind having both on an organ! Considering that probably isn't your choice, I'd opt for the Voix Celeste.

        Michael

        P.S. I LOVE Flute Celeste, but have seldom seen it called for in music. String Celeste is much more frequently requested.
        Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
        • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
        • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
        • 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos

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        • #5
          Our Klais has an 8' Unda Maris in the Choir Division. There are also an 8' Dulciana and an 8' Bordun in that Division, so I'm not sure which it was intended to be played with.

          David

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          • #6
            I used to play a 1950 Casavant that had both.

            The Voix Celeste, paired with the Salicional (or Viol di Gamba) is the usual first celeste in an organ.

            The Unda Maris is paired with the Dulciana and should be of similar pipes. It was tuned flat but at some point the technicians starting tuning it sharp. I preferred it flat because it could be paired with the Great Spitzflote for a pseudo Flute Celeste. (It overpowered the Spitzflote when it was tuned sharp.) It also worked well (tuned flat) at the soft close of an anthem where the choir would go flat. Move to the Dulciana/Unda Maris and then push in the Dulciana so the flat Unda Maris made the choir sound on pitch.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by myorgan View Post
              I'd recommend the Voix Celeste, as that is the stop "traditionally" coupled with the Salicional--especially for French Romantic music. I've also never run into a "real" Unda Maris stop in the last 3 decades (except for once--and it was out for repair). The Voix Celeste, I use at least 2-3 times per month.

              That said, however, I wouldn't mind having both on an organ! Considering that probably isn't your choice, I'd opt for the Voix Celeste.

              Michael

              P.S. I LOVE Flute Celeste, but have seldom seen it called for in music. String Celeste is much more frequently requested.
              Dale Wood always calls for flute celeste in his registrations. Wasn't he at the National Cathedral, or still is? They are definitely only found on larger pipe organs and never in place of a Voix but added to one, either in the Swell with the Voix or in the Choir while the Voix stays on the Swell. . Composers tend to write for the instruments they play. Any size electronic may have a flute celeste. They can be very nice. Only modern literature I think will actually call for it by name.

              H



              Originally posted by davidecasteel View Post
              Our Klais has an 8' Unda Maris in the Choir Division. There are also an 8' Dulciana and an 8' Bordun in that Division, so I'm not sure which it was intended to be played with.
              Not to be a Weisenheimer but probably the stop that it sits next to in the stoprail. Another poster is correct, however. It is likely the Dulciana that it is intended to be paired with. Intended being the operative word. There are, however, standalone Unda's. I've met a couple of Klais' in my short life and I wouldn't assume anything. I would ask someone. It might be worth noting here that just about all Flute Celestes that I know of are stand alone. One tab will bring on both ranks, the normal tuned one and the sharp one.

              H

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Leisesturm View Post
                Dale Wood always calls for flute celeste in his registrations. Wasn't he at the National Cathedral, or still is?

                H
                Dale Wood died several years ago. As far as I know, he was never at National Cathedral, unless for a one-off organ concert, and I can't even imagine that. His kind of music was not the kind that would have been played at the Cathedral.
                Mike

                My home organ is a Theatre III with an MDS II MIDI Expander.

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                • #9
                  Our instrument has stop knobs arranged in triangles. The Unda Maris knob is directly above the Dulciana, and a Knight's move away from the Bordun, so I'd guess it is intended to be coupled with the former. Since I'm not the Organist, I don't know if drawing the Unda Maris also draws the Dulciana. I do know that the Dulciana is the softest stop on the instrument.

                  David

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