Tuner that works with pipe organ

[Havoc]

Has someone a reference for a good electronic tuner that works with a pipe organ? I'd like to tune a couple of pipes but my hearing of pitch is just too bad.

I really would like a real tuner, not an app or pc program. I once tried with a pc program on a netbook but for an organ where you are balancing on a ladder and need both hands to maniulate the pipe this doesn't work. Likewise a slippery phone that always goes into sleep or is unreadable because of reflections.

Now if it also has the possibility to tune to a couple of baroque temperaments that would be perfect.

[jbird604]

I use a phone app called "Cleartune" and it works better for me than anything else I've ever tried. The app keeps the phone from going to sleep as long as it is in use. You may have a different experience, but I don't have any trouble viewing the large clear display on my phone screen. It has numerous temperaments you can choose from, it can be set up or down from A=440 in 1/10th Hertz increments. Requires no external microphone, no power cord. It's small enough to carry in my pocket and set it down right where I'm working.

Costs about $5 I think. I once paid $500 for a tuner, and later on I paid about $200. Neither one was anywhere near as versatile or convenient as this simple phone app. Been using it for about 10 years now and I wouldn't go back to a stand-alone device of any kind.

[m&m's]

Korg makes several small tuners that are battery powered, inexpensive, and work well. I have the CA-40 model, which I have used for tuning both pianos and organs. It runs about $20 on Ebay, and certainly would be adequate for what you want to do.

[Leisesturm]

I have had a Korg OT-12 (Orchestral Tuner) for nearly 20 years. It was then the sine qua non of electronic tuners. I highly recommend it, even though it is likely discontinued. However, if someone makes a good app that not only shows you the pitch you want, but also the actual pitch of the note being played and which direction you need to go to achieve equal temperament then that is also a way to do it.

[Havoc]

I'll look at the models given, they both seem to be in production. The OT12 has temperaments. Right now I want to tackle the few notes that are just too much out of tune and make using the 4' flute a disaster. But if tuning it is not too hard I might tune it in some unequal temperament. As I do not play anything else than baroque or earlier that would be great.

[rjsilva]

I second what jbird said, and if you're concerned about holding the phone just get a mount like this for $10:

https://www.amazon.com/Aduro-Solid-G...ds=phone+stand

I have two apps on my iPhone for tuning and they have advanced features. The main limitation is the built-in mic quality, but if you're serious about tuning you can buy cheap (relatively) external mics that will improve the accuracy of notes in the extremes. Here are screenshots from the two apps I have.

This one is called insTuner:



And this one is called Tunable:



Both have multiple ways of tuning in addition to lots of temperaments. For instance, in the insTuner screenshot above I have it set on strobe, and in the Tunable screenshot I have it set on history (shows pitch over time). Other modes are Fine-Tuning, Instant-Tuning, Historical Curve, FFT, and Spectrogram.

[jbird604]

There are always going to be as many opinions as there are people, so you may just have to pick something and go for it. I would add, in favor of using a phone app, that today's smart phones have excellent microphones built in. You can do some amazingly good high fidelity audio recording using nothing but the mic on your phone, so you know it's capable of detecting a wide range of pitches.

The built-in mic is so good on my phone that I can easily use the tuning app to tune all the way down to the lowest C of the 32' pedal stops, and up to the highest notes of the 2' stops, which is as high as the oscillators go in most analog organs. I've also used it for tuning pipes with similar capabilities. I'm completely sold on phone apps for this purpose, and I thought back in the day that I'd never find anything I liked as much as my old Strobotuner. But I was wrong!

[rjsilva]

...The built-in mic is so good on my phone that I can easily use the tuning app to tune all the way down to the lowest C of the 32' pedal stops, and up to the highest notes of the 2' stops, which is as high as the oscillators go in most analog organs. I've also used it for tuning pipes with similar capabilities.

Interesting! I've never used it for anything but testing with a piano (I trained as an aural tuner and don't feel a need to use tuning devices). The built-in mic is ok for piano, but only about 70% of it. Maybe it's because of the pronounced partials in the bass and weak sustain in the treble. I should try it with my organ...

[Havoc]

Just got delivery of an OT12. Held it up to the organ and played a few notes and it looks as if this is going to take a bit to get used to. With the stopped pipes it has tendency to jump around a bit. Like with the C3 of the stopped 8' it jumps to C2 (ok, its the octave) and the F#3. Might be because I'm not that close to the pipe.

To my surprise, it isn't that far off. Most I got is 20 cents (except a couple that are really far off). But it sounded far worse. Another thing is I adjusted 3 pedal pipes that I could easily reach just to see if I could do this. When I got back after an hour or so, they weren't where I has "tuned" them. Now I doubt temperature changed in the room during that time. But it does indicate that I will have to do this in a single go. No way to do half of it, or a single rank and then another the day after or worse, the weekend after. How the hell do they do a 50 rank pipe organ?

Now, do I do note bu note and each time all ranks of the same note at the same time or do you do each rank and then move on to the next rank?

[rjsilva]

Regarding the tuner, how far away were you? Distance does matter. Additionally, there may be other ambient sounds you don't recognise as having a musical pitch but the tuner may be picking up their frequency.

[Havoc]

I had the tuner on the music stand and that pipe is somewhere at the back. Say a meter or so. There is of course the fan but if I don't play a note it doesn't react on that.

Something that surprised me is how little you have to touch the stopper to have a measurable change. I cannot hear the difference. Just pushing on it without feeling or seeing it move is enough.

This makes me wonder how exact the turn ng has to be. Iff I take a look at temperament tables they note deviations of 2 to 6 cents. But I cannot hear differences of 20 cents on a single note!

[KOC62]

I'm not a musician but I believe that your experience regarding one note is common. Where I would expect to get an audible difference is when two different notes are played at the same time and the upper harmonics of the two notes can be too far apart (or too close) - from a musical (tuning) perspective. That "distance of notes" you can hear more accurately as being in or out of tune.

[Leisesturm]

Different constructions of pipe express different harmonics of the expected pitch at different levels. I have little trouble believing that the 2nd harmonic of a stopped pipe might predominate the fundamental at a particular spot in the room and confuse the tuner. Luckily with the OT-12 it is possible to have it 'play' the pitch (fundamental) that you want to hear and tune to that instead if the tuner is experiencing difficulty locking onto the fundamental presented by the pipe.

[crapwonk]

The 2nd harmonic has a wavelength half that of the fundamental. It will have twice as many intensity maxima, so there will be a maximum in between the locations of the fundamental's maximum. And the fundamental will share its maxima locations with the 2nd harmonic. It gets even worse if you happened to be at a spot that sound reflections favored reinforcing the 2nd harmonic. It is not hard to believe your tuner landed on a peak for the 2nd harmonic.

[Havoc]

Only that in a closed pipe the next harmonic after the fundamental is the third... the second is not present.