What are the audible and construction differences between an English trumpet and American trumpet? (With tapered shallots, I assume.)
I was told English trumpets are smoother (warm?) and are not as dark timbre as the bold American trumpets. Is this true? I have reason to ask this because a few organs around here have trumpets that don't adhere to the 'Distinct School of Organbuilding Law' and it would be helpful to be able to identify some of these misaligned trumpets.
American Trumpet is a broad term encompassing a large range of various stops depending on the vintage or era.The 19th century versions tended to be loud usually on the great manual. i didnt find them particularly charming. As the 20th century progressed we see a tendancy more toward tubas and trombas and less trumpets.I believe that till much later in the 20th centruy that American trumpets were smooth to a point. The 1900 model on the organI use is quite nice. Likely revoiced in 1960 by an English trained voicer possibly the sound is different but i think it was preserved along the 1900 lines and is a very fine contrast to the Harmonic Trumpet along English lines in the same organ.
I regard the English Trumpets of G Donald Harrison as quite outstanding such as the one at Bowne St Community Church in Flushing Queens dating to 1929 and being among the breed that old EM Skinner said were among the trumpets Harrison was using that were 200 years old.
I feel American Trumpets can be smooth or crunchy. Trivo Co in Maryland makes nice trumpets and they can be whatever you want. The English style reeds that were made out of the Aeolian-Skinner swell French-type at Riverside Church 1967 are smoother than previously and quite excellent for use with the chorus or soloist.Similarly the trumpets at Ely Cahedral are glorious specimens of English work. if you are now thoroughly confused maybe it is possible that the distinction between the two types is not so well defined!
I'm adding two Trumpets to my home organ....one was a Tuba rank, rescaled as a Trumpet in the 1950's....it is very reedy.
And another newer Austin Trumpet that is I believe also pretty reedy.
these were voiced to play on 4 inches of wind. I'm going to be placing them on chests that will operate at 6 inches of wind. Any thoughts on what I might expect?
They sound fine on 5 inches of wind, but won't know on the 6 until I try.
I believe they are very similar sounding ranks however...so back on point............what would the process be for taking one of these ranks to make it "brassy"? I.E. having one as an "American Trumpet" and one as a Brass French Trumpet? thoughts on revoicing? how does one do it?
If in the process of redoing the tuba a new thinner tongue was substituted for the older fatter one then you might experience a bit of difficulty. if the tongues are such that they have a limited range in which they will work well then possibly the jump from 4 to 6'' could result in a forced tone. The revoicing of the trumpet will be greatly improved by the addition of liquid solder to the shallots thus creating a more brilliant and edgy tone. This was done to a fat tromba stop of not real bright voicing and the difference was astounding. Fiery bright and plenty of excitement!
Are there any recordings featuring English trumpets and American
trumpets? (By English trumpets I mean those built like Willis, T.C.
Lewis, Harrison & Harrison, etc. and for American trumpets I mean
E. M. Skinner [or any other late 19th early 20th century builders.])
Also, I thought English trumpets had a slight "blurb" to their tone and American trumpets were darker. Is this true?
Also what era of reed building are you asking about? 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st century? You will find a huge variations in what was considerd English/American reedat any point in history.
Also what era of reed building are you asking about? 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st century? You will find a huge variations in what was considerd English/American reedat any point in history.
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If it is not too much trouble could you explain the differences from each era, maybe the late 19th early 20th centuries? (Pre-organ reform movement) That would be much appreciated. I don't want to take too much of your time, so I don't expect an essay.
If you're out there, Soubasse32, would you please shed some light on this? You seem to be quite knowledgeable in the art of Organbuilding.
I was orignallygoing to say that thehallmark ofa true English Trumpetis they are usually served with tea... [:D]
I've always thought of the English style trumpet as being darker sounding (closed shallots, etc.) compared to American trumpets. But as has been mentioned, it all depends on the builder and the era. Then you have Trumpets, Cornopeans, Trombas, Tubas, etc. Why single out the Trumpet? A catchy term I've heardin relation tochorus reeds fromthe early 20th-century:"cast-iron Cornopean".
In the US you have the wonderfuland increasingly rareJohnson patent reed, with its special brilliance. You can find 'modified French' chorus reeds from Aeolian-Skinner.Moller Trumpets can be smooth and round.
I cannot cite specifics regarding English Trumpets, other than to list my impressions based on recordings in my library.
I'll spare you those details (which may be of little help)... [;)]
The type of English-inspired trumpets that made a debut here in the USA by Donald Harrison of the then Skinner Co are brilliant in intonation and NOT AT ALL DARK in tone . The 8' Sw Trumpet at Yale is NOT of parallel shallot construction and yet is fiery and brite and was an inovation in the Skinner lineup of chorus reeds. That was in 1928. Similarly the English-inspired So. division trumpet at Yale on 15'' is likewise open in tone but NOT of parallel shallot construction. The very first example of French-type modified design was 1931 for Yale in the unenclosed So--the trumpet harmonique 8 on 25''.The 2 1902 Gt division trumpets at Yale are very brilliant in tone ; originally built by Hutchings and presumably American--they are fiery and brilliant.
Thus we see that to try to make some sort of generalizations is at best difficult since there are exceptions sufficient to challenge any hard fast rule.
Is anyone here familiar with the standard 8' Trumpet unit built on the great division of Quimby instruments? (It extends to 16' and sometimes 32' in the pedal.) This seems to fit the definition of an English trumpet, it is very smooth and warm, but it is very light and almost flue-like in the treble.
To clarify, would the trumpets heard on this recording be English? (I think you hear them only in the latter half [the Allegro]. These trumpets sound very similair to what I am talking about.)
It is my opinion that Quimby does not per se manufacture reeds. His flues may be his own doing. The job at jackson MS 5-155 is new and old flues voiced/revoiced by the 75 year old former Aeolian-Skinner subcontractor that does some Skinner specialty stops for Quimby or in the case of Jackson probabaly most or all the flues. The reeds at jackson are mostly along anglo-american lines. They work well with the Skinneresque flues for a very full and dignified tone.Quimby seems to be a fan of the English sound. The job in St Paul MN includes a new Bombarde division added to Skinner and Aeolian-Skinner organs in that venue along with new duplicate consoles.
Likely Quimby has suppliers that provide very fine solid English toned reeds. This would be for new work. The A-S head voicer mentioned above has done reed restoration for Quimby on the Grand Ave Methodist job in Kansas City. Right now the Quimby works are busy on the John the Divine restoration due by years end.
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