Favorite stop controls

[AMDguy]

This has been discussed very sparsely on occasion, but I am curious about what people have to say in a bit more detail...

What is your favorite style of stop control? (drawknobs? rocker tabs? just plain tabs? (like on Allen organs from the MOS and ADC era) lighted? moving? do you prefer Allen's style of lighted tabs? Rodgers? Viscount? (all a bit different)
what layout? (French terrace style for knobs, or American style (on a "wall" on either side of the manuals)?) (for tabs: on top of the manuals? or to the side of the manuals (where knobs usually are)



I will start... I have not been playing organ for that long (only about a year and a half), so I have not played very many organs, but thus far, I think either a row of rocker tabs above the top manual, or drawknobs (in the American/church style)would have to be my favorite. This might be a little controversial, but hear me out. I really do not like the Allen tabs because I think the tabs are too small, and you end up hitting something you don't want to when hand registering (I have done this way to many times...). I have played a Baldwin D912 once or twice, and I hate the lighted drawknobs. They seem much cheaper then most of the other units I have seen, as you have to pull them perfectly straight out, otherwise they stick and you can't pull them out at all. Because of this it is impossible to pull out more than 1 or maybe 2 knobs with 1 hand.

I generally am not a fan of lighted controls on organs. They just seem so cheap. I know they are less expensive than moving controls, and perhaps part of this is that I have never played with "good" lighted controls (only the aforementioned D912), but what impression they have made thus far has not been good.

On the other hand... I LOVE the moving tab capture action on my Allen 123-C. I don't like the tabs themselves (their shape... too small), but seeing what is on at a glance is awesome. No light bulbs to burn out or other things to fiddle with like that...

[toodles]

For me, it depends a lot on the console, number of manuals, and number of stops.

For a single row of stops, a single row of rocker tabs above the top manual is about as convenient as it gets--easier to use that tongue tablets or drawknobs. It it has to have 2 rows, then i prefer tongue tablets above the manuals, 2 rows, but I don't want the stops extending past the end of the manual key cheeks. This is all about convenience and putting the stops right at my fingertips. If 2 rows, I want the regular stops centered, and any generals split between the left and right of the regular stops--again, putting the most frequenty used stops right where they can be easily accessed.

I detest lighted drawknobs, am OK with moving drawknobs, and I like the European style lighted rocker tabs, but not the style that Rodgers uses--this is an esthetic issue with me, not one of functionality.

I like very much the LED stop tabs that Rodgers used in the mid to late 1980s, and am surprised no one else has developed a similar style--any patents have long since expired. I prefer LED tongue tablets like Rodgers's over regular moving stops, because they are silent and because regardless of whether or not the stop is on or off, the stops are all in the same plane for easy reading and looking neat and tidy.

If the console has to have jambs to accommodate a large number of stops, then I like moving rocker tabs on the jambs, just not laid out the way Allen does it--they seem to be following a pattern that could be inferred from AGO specs, but AGO says nothing about rocker tabs on jambs, and so the layout they use is clumsy.

Allen's classical tongue tabs are not too short--they just waste about half-an-inch of the length moving the tab mechanism behind the stopboard with a spacer, so the exposed part is too short. Anyway, I prefer what I called the "notched" style of tongue tab (similar to Austin tongue tabs).

Also, I find Allen's theatre consoles very nicely laid out with regular length tongue tabs, but their engraving style is all wrong for theatre organs. They use a slant san-serif font, and if they want to mimic Wurlitzer, they need an Italic or a script font; a block font (like Conn used, also like Barton) would also be OK.

[Nutball]

I prefer normal tabs in general, though I like how Allen's are a little wider than most if I'm not mistaken. Moving would be ideal to see what it on, and lights are not preferable unless they indicate some other function than on or off like maybe what manual or piston they are coupled to (a feature that probably doesn't exist). The stop tabs may be placed wherever convenient. I have no experience with draw knobs, but I dislike rocker tabs and for some reason I often push them the wrong way, but that was on a Galanti with lighted tabs that would stay centered all the time.

[AMDguy]

what do you mean by "I often push them the wrong way"? I thought that with those tabs you could push them either way and it does not matter...

[Nutball]

I think up or the top is off and down (bottom) is on, but I'd always mix it up. I'd rather have a push on, push off on the same button, same direction, if the tab didn't stay tilted one way or another.

[jbird604]

I have done that too, Nutball (tried to turn one off by pressing the bottom instead of the top). Don't know why, but that can be annoying.

[AMDguy]

For me, it depends a lot on the console, number of manuals, and number of stops.

For a single row of stops, a single row of rocker tabs above the top manual is about as convenient as it gets--easier to use that tongue tablets or drawknobs. It it has to have 2 rows, then i prefer tongue tablets above the manuals, 2 rows, but I don't want the stops extending past the end of the manual key cheeks. This is all about convenience and putting the stops right at my fingertips. If 2 rows, I want the regular stops centered, and any generals split between the left and right of the regular stops--again, putting the most frequenty used stops right where they can be easily accessed.

I detest lighted drawknobs, am OK with moving drawknobs, and I like the European style lighted rocker tabs, but not the style that Rodgers uses--this is an esthetic issue with me, not one of functionality.

I like very much the LED stop tabs that Rodgers used in the mid to late 1980s, and am surprised no one else has developed a similar style--any patents have long since expired. I prefer LED tongue tablets like Rodgers's over regular moving stops, because they are silent and because regardless of whether or not the stop is on or off, the stops are all in the same plane for easy reading and looking neat and tidy.

If the console has to have jambs to accommodate a large number of stops, then I like moving rocker tabs on the jambs, just not laid out the way Allen does it--they seem to be following a pattern that could be inferred from AGO specs, but AGO says nothing about rocker tabs on jambs, and so the layout they use is clumsy.

Allen's classical tongue tabs are not too short--they just waste about half-an-inch of the length moving the tab mechanism behind the stopboard with a spacer, so the exposed part is too short. Anyway, I prefer what I called the "notched" style of tongue tab (similar to Austin tongue tabs).

Also, I find Allen's theatre consoles very nicely laid out with regular length tongue tabs, but their engraving style is all wrong for theatre organs. They use a slant san-serif font, and if they want to mimic Wurlitzer, they need an Italic or a script font; a block font (like Conn used, also like Barton) would also be OK.

It is not the length I don't like about the Allen tabs, but they are very narrow, and extremely close together. If they were further apart, then that would fix the problem... I always catch and additional tab or two at least once every time I practice, and sometimes those tabs that I catch are things that I REALLY don't want (such as the percussion effect or a tremulant). This is especially apparent when going for a tab that is farther away and next to other tabs like the ones I mentioned. The most significant offender in this regard is the swell to great tab (at least on my 123-c, as well as the other few MOS-1 Allens I have played).

I have played a few consoles with normal theatre style tabs (similar to the Allen ones in width, but more spacing between tabs) and been totally fine with them. I actually quite liked them.

I like drawknobs because you can push or pull them with relative ease... I prefer them to tabs (especially the short Allen ones) because you (at least I do) really have to get your fingers under the tabs, and when they are down they are close to the wood right over the keyboards and it is really awkward to do quickly, even more so accurately.

I have seen pictures of the "notched" tabs on Austin and the like, but have never played on an organ that has them.

What are the LED tabs that Rodgers used? I have never seen a picture of them. I actually like the noise of a moving capture action... just feels more satisfying. When I push a piston I like hearing the thunk or clack, not just seeing a bunch of lights flash...

[AllenAnalog]

Interesting discussion. While I find nothing more elegant in appearance than a drawknob console, I do prefer the Allen style stoptab console over drawknobs for quick registration changes to my piston presets. Obviously that type of console becomes impractical over a certain size specification unless you are doing a theater organ with multiple bolsters of color coded tabs.

While lighted drawknobs may be easier for the organist to see the current registration at a glance, from an audience viewpoint I find them very distracting during a concert when the console is visible. Same opinion of the lighted rockers on my Johannus.

When I recently tried a new Rodgers console with illuminated drawknobs I found them incredibly cheap and flimsy feeling compared to the substantial feel of a moving drawknob mechanism.

I also find LEDs (especially blinking ones like I've seen on some YT videos of VPO consoles), that shine towards the audience or reflect off of shiny woodwork very annoying.

[toodles]

LED Stop tablets from Rodgers looked like these. The LED was a "top hat" style, with concentric ridges on the top surface to diffuse and direct the light. They looked quite elegant. The stops operated "press-on/press-off".

While the noise from a combination action might normally be unobjectionable, I find that it's a bit much in a small space when playing a quiet passage, and then, "THUD!!!" from the combination action.

I also prefer controls with reeds filled with red, which Allen doesn't always do, but sometimes does. I guess it is special order?

[AMDguy]

ahh yes, I have seen those Rodgers lighted tabs once. I think those would have to be the nicest looking lighted controls I have seen.

I see your point... to each his own...

Why don't more builders do that? I really like the reeds red as well.

[myorgan]

Yup, been done:

• https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...s-vs-drawknobs
• https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...teeth-stoptabs

Michael

[Piperdane]

Personal preference are drawknobs ... the ones that actually move (I loathe the lighted stop tabs and drawknob ones). I also dislik the Allen "beaver tooth" stop tabs; just too short. The AOB I play now has the elongated stop tabs and are easy to maneuver for quick stop changes. Mostly I use pistons like crazy ... even for simple one stop adds are removal; I have 6 memories with 28 pistons (general and diviisional) for each so there is never any shortage for piston changes.

I am also a lover of reversibles ... the AOB lacks a Swell to Great reversible, but I found that the first "position" on the crescendo pedal is the addition of the Swell to Great coupler, so that works out for me.

[toodles]

I've rarely seen photos of the Rodgers consoles that use rockers or tongue tablets on side jambs, but they did offer these in the original Specification 990 (later to become the Heritage 990) model--here's photos of those options. I like the neat and tidy look and easy access of the rocker tabs on the jambs.

[jbird604]

Preferences are all over the map, I see. It probably depends to some extent on what you get used to. I'll cast a vote for genuine moving drawknobs, particularly the old-style Allen knobs (they changed to a slightly smaller knob sometime in the 90's, which doesn't have quite the same sensual feel!). I like the satisfying silky smooth movement of pulling out the knob, and I can tell what stops are on instantly without having to study them. The fact that they "stand out" when drawn and the white part of the stem shows, both help indicate their state. The only downside is the sometimes loud clunk when a large number of knobs move at once in response to a piston press.

I can't warm up to the lighted knobs on anybody's console. The slightly stiff springiness bugs me somehow, and a lot of lighted knobs on cheaper organs seem to be very flimsy and fragile. Certain brands seem to have really cheap ones that have been known to come off in one's hand, at least the end of it. Having to worry about a stop being "on" but unlighted (the bulb is burned out) adds extra stress to playing, though the later ones with LED's help with that.

As someone else mentioned, Rodgers lighted tilting tabs don't seem as nice as those on European organs, such as Johannus, Content, Viscount, etc. It's something about the stroke, perhaps shallower, and a kind of stiffness or squeakiness as it moves. As with knobs, those with LED's are much easier to live with than those with incandescent lamps that seem to burn out all too often. But Allen's "lumitech" tabs with the strange LED's behind a jeweled lens are somehow strange-looking and odd-feeling. The ideal lighted tabs are European style with LED's. (But I can see the advantage of Allen's jeweled LED's in that they don't give the glaring effect to people out in one's audience.)

Tongue tabs are nice, IMHO. Especially for a small to medium size two-manual. Having them stretched out in a straight line, logically arranged, right in front of the eyes and within easy reach makes playing a real joy. But ONLY if they are of the authentic moving type, as on Allens up until 15 years ago, when this style was unfortunately dropped from the offerings. The Baldwin "Silent Touch" tabs were way too stiff, and the little lamps were always burning out, making them quite unsuitable.

I once thought the Rodgers LED tabs of the 80's were really strange, with the same motion to turn on as off, but after playing one for a while I decided I did like them quite a lot. They are attractive, the LED's don't burn out, they are silent, and one gets used to the way they work quite easily. Too bad they are gone.

[AMDguy]

yes, the D912 I mentioned is dying, and NONE of the lighted drawknobs light up when on. It makes it very interesting to play... you have to press the general cancel every time you want to change registration. It is very annoying to play.

[michaelhoddy]

Good old Harris-style moving drawknobs for me (the ADC era Allen ones are nice too). I know it's not as efficient as rockers or stop tabs, but there's just something substantial about them. Never liked the lighted rockers from anyone- Allen included. We dealt with the lamped versions at Galanti, and while they were efficient and certainly cost-effective, I never warmed up to them.

Syndyne moving stop keys would probably be my number two choice. The AOB I grew up playing had them. I was never a fan of the shape or movement of the Allen "horse teeth" stop tabs, but I'd still take them over the lighted stuff of any provenance.

[toodles]

One thing that is obvious between drawknobs and tablets (either tongue or rocker) is that a panel of drawknobs forms a 2-dimensional array, and tablets form a 1 dimensional array, at least in terms of reading the stops. A linear array is how we read, left to right, top to bottom--just like is done on tablet consoles, regardless if the stops are above the manuals or on jambs, so scanning an organ with which you are unfamiliar is very quick.

But with the drawknob array, you have to read in a somewhat unnatural way--bottom to top, taking the several columns of a division--so you read the stoplist in a slow and cumbersome fashion. . I think that slows down the process, especially as an organ gets very large. It does not present as much, if any, of a problem for a console with which the organist is quite familiar or a small organ.

[AMDguy]

I only really wish the Allen tabs were not so small... I actually might try making some tabs that are longer (I think the white tabs just screws onto the actual mechanism, right?)

[jbird604]

The white tab does indeed attach to the working part of the mechanism with a couple of screws. I'm unsure as to whether longer ones would work though. The mechanism is quite thoroughly integrated, with the stop tabs themselves serving to limit the travel up and down in the MDS and Renaissance models with those tabs. (In the old days, the stop frame had up/down adjustable felt bumpers in each one, but they eventually abandoned those in favor of cheaper strips of felt glued to the console slot.)

I'd try just one or two at first and see if it actually works and if it actually feels and looks better than the stock tabs.

[tbeck]

I agree that the Allen stop tabs are esthetically unappealing. I love the appearance of a drawknob console, but I agree that they are perhaps a little harder for a visiting organist to get used to.

[Coenraads]

An interesting discussion and one I'd like to approach from a different view point. Given the opportunity to play an organ which is new to you, what style of console do you prefer? To answer that, I'd like to contrast two large four manual pipe organs which I'm familiar with as tuning assistant and which I sometimes take the opportunity to play. One is a Casavant style console, panels of draw knobs on either side, with divisions and draw knobs arranged in the usual order. The second is a French style terraced console with draw knobs for the various divisions spread over both sides.

When one sits down at a Casavant style console, the amount of time needed for familiarization is essentially zero and I find myself hand drawing stops and happily playing right away. Everything is where I would expect it to be, and there are no surprises. Not so with the terraced organ. First of all, the stop heads are not mounted at an angle and I find myself having to lean over to read them. Also the stops are arranged so that the stops for a given division are not constrained to one terrace but "spill over" onto a lower terrace. A marker indicates the dividing point between them, but even then I can never remember which division is on which side. As a result, I rely totally on the organist's presets when playing that organ. Although this console looks fantastic, I find it frustrating to play. I note that visiting concert organists rely totally on the sequencer when playing this instrument. There is something to be said for colour coded stop heads as I've seen on some French organs.

Another beef I have is the three rows of toe studs. One has to bend down to see the top row, and a layer of dust confirms that they never get used. It looks impressive but I'm a minimalist when it comes to toe studs. And what do you prefer on your toe studs anyway besides the usual couplers? Generals or Pedal divisionals?

[jbird604]

I'd sure find that type of terraced console confusing! I've seen a few drawknob models where a vertical column of knobs were for one division in the top half, and another division below that, marked by a dividing line. But even that was confusing.

As to toe studs, I'd want them to be very basic, as i have enough trouble just finding one or two of them!

[AMDguy]

Interesting about the terraced console. I have seen pictures of some organs like that and wondered that it might be confusing unless you are very familiar with the organ. I think that rocker tabs on jambs next to the manuals would be pretty ideal from a control standpoint, but they don't look nearly as nice as drawknobs.

Has anyone ever played on a terraced console where the jambs are not curved like the French style, but rather are straight (like this organ https://pipeorgandatabase.org/organ/6215 ?

[myorgan]

Has anyone ever played on a terraced console where the jambs are not curved like the French style, but rather are straight (like this organ https://pipeorgandatabase.org/organ/6215 ?

Yes, I have-in concert, but only 3 manuals.

Michael