Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?

[Guest]

When someone begins to become interested in the pipe organ either in the playing fixing or both ends of it they quickly will hear the term ''voicing''.Yet much time could easily elapse before said person really comes to understand even the basic principles of flue pipe voicing. So, for the benefit of the forum i pose this question: after a pipe is fabricated, please tell what procedures are required to achieve the minimum voicing of ''putting the pipe on speech''? or making the pipe produce a musical sound.

[pipecutter]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



The minimum would be to strike a line on the upper lip with your proportional dividers and then remove the metal between the lower lip and that line with your cut-up knife. Then you would align the upper and lower lips, make sure there was a reasonable opening in the toe of the pipe and then blow the pipe by mouth or organ chest to see if it speaks at all. Knock the languid down if it's too slow. Knock it up if it speaks too fast or overblows to its octave.

This is voicing room 101. It's what is done after these basic manuevers that separates the men from the boys in this business!

[Guest]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



This is voicing room 101. It's what is done after these basic manuevers that separates the men from the boys in this business

thnx pipecutter

if you care to can you tells us what will happen afterward that can produce a beautiful tone as opposed to a less nice sound?

[pipecutter]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



Once you graduate from voicing 101, you are often thrust directly into graduate studies that will be picked apart by everyone who has ever read a book about organs but has probably never had any hands-on experience. 101 explains the mechanics. Almost everything after that involves an overall concept that directs you toward a particular sound or style. Some like a fairly "raw" sound that utilizes little to no knicking and a fairly open toe. Other expect a more refined sound that may require a higher cut, wider flue and more pronounced knicks. Scaling, acoustics, placement and taste all contribute to infinite variationsin what can be done to a given pipe.

The "beautiful tone" you refer to is subject to the ear of the beholder...in a given organ....in a particular acoustical environment.

[Guest]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



thnx again pipecutter

what physical precise adjustments can u make to achieve your desired tone?

[myorgan]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



[quote user="pipecutter"] The minimum would be to strike a line on the upper lip with your proportional dividers and then remove the metal between the lower lip and that line with your cut-up knife.[/quote]

Stupid question(s)--Is that (proportional divider) a tool or a formula? With either, how would I know where to strike the line? Is the line stricken vertically or horizontally?

[quote user="pipecutter"] Then you would align the upper and lower lips, make sure there was a reasonable opening in the toe of the pipe and then blow the pipe by mouth or organ chest to see if it speaks at all.[/quote]

Is this so they are aligned horizontally or to give it an overbite or underbite? Really, no pun intended. Just trying to be as descriptive as possible so the layperson can understand.

[quote user="pipecutter"] Knock it up . . . .[/quote]

What I could do with that one!!![6] Would certainly cut down on the expense of reproducing pipes![;)]

Thanks for this thread. It's good to have a refresher on the basics from time to time. Many times we assume others on the forum know what we're talking about, and we all know what that does!!!

Thanks again.

Michael

[odellorgans]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?

[quote user="sesquialtera16"]

if you care to can you tells us what will happen afterward that can produce a beautiful tone as opposed to a less nice sound?

[/quote]

I don't consider myself an authority on this topic, but I can offer what I have discovered in my own experience. I would suggest Monette's book for a good primer for the uninitiated.

The best voicing occurs when the stage is properly set.  Important decisions must be made long beforehand as part of the tonal design. Scales, metal type/thickness, wind pressure, placement and treatment (mouth width, languid thickness, languid bevel angle, ears/bridges/beards) will ultimately govern the final potential of a given set of pipes, though when circumstances call for it, a seasoned voicer can "work around a scale" (as we sometimes say) to push a set of pipes beyond their original design intent. Knowing this, it is amusing that the act of voicing is sometimes regarded as a magical, poignant event, as if somehow all the required decisions beforehand played no role.

Assuming scale and treatment decisions are thoughtfully made, the next most important step yet again occurs before the pipes come into the hand of the voicer, namely in the pipe shop. Pipes that are well made will set up circumstances that can make voicing a pleasure or a pain.  A good pipemaker will, among other things, make sure there are no burrs on the lower edges of his languid stock, make sure the bodies, languids and feet are perfectly aligned, that flatting is straight and true (lightly scoring the inside of the metal helps but is not a requisite or universally done), that toes are well formed and many, many other details. Personally, I appreciate it when a pipemaker leaves the languids set consistently high; it just makes the prep work go much faster. 

When all these factors are in place, the first stage of voicing is preparation: scribing the cutups and cutting them, setting and beveling the toe openings, setting the lips and languids, initial nicking (if any) and skiving of cutups (if needed). Prep work is sometimes done by apprentices, and some builders order their pipes from their pipemakers fully prepared.  Cutup schedules are most often worked out with a proportional divider.  In some cases, the ratio of mouth height to pipe diameter will change over the compass.  Other times, especially in the case of arched mouths, the mouth height is already recorded and transferred as coordinate points on a worksheet or scale stick.  I have, for example, several different scale sheets and sticks for certain Odell and Skinner arch cutup schedules, and special sticks for locating the nodal point on harmonic pipes. I use combinations of new and old technology to work these factors out, including my System Rensch slide rule, duplications of old shop jigs, and measurements worked out in my CAD software. There are, one could say, many paths to the same door.

Ultimately, as in all things, is pays off greatly here to be meticulous, and this among the things that separate the mediocre from the truly great, in my opinion.  Consistent preparation work requires skill, concern and patience.  At this point you can set the pipes to initial speech.

There is some divergence of opinion as to how best to approach the final stages of voicing (and subsequently, tonal finishing).  Some builders don't do the prep work until they are on site, others do most (if not all) their voicing at the shop.  Final decisions about volume should, in the opinion of most, only be made on site, but being in the ballpark helps. It can be useful to bring samples and set Cs in the room and use them as references in the shop, as well as setting Cs relative to each other with divisions and across the entire organ.

It is worth noting that pipes on a windchest can behave differently than they will on the voicing machine, particularly if the two have differing mechanisms.  It is possible, for example, to voice a set of pipes and find once they are on the chest that issues arise because of placement, ditching or hole schedule differences.  Pipes also behave differently on slider chests because the onset of speech is slightly slower when compared to EP or EM chest configurations.  The best voicers take all these factors into account.  To coin a phrase, it is quite easy to "get into the weeds" with a set of pipes if you don't consider as many factors as possible.

An experienced voicer will also understand when it is necessary to arbitrarily bend the rules, manipulate scales and raise or lower cutups to get exemplary results.

Wood pipes require different approaches; many things are fixed beforehand and there are limits to what the voicer can do beyond cutting up and shaping the flue. Some have the flue cut into  in the block, others in the cap. Grain orientation in the block and cap is also important. As with metal pipes, the stage largely (and sometimes entirely) set when wood pipes are designed and made, with factors such as scale, mouth width, languid bevels, caps, the angle of the flat for the mouth, whether the mouth is inverted (ie. -  inward facing) or not. Other factors: the schedule size of the pipe feet, whether or not they have cast toes or gates.

[Guest]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?

Thank you for a comprehensive and synoptic overview of an intriguing and important area of organ fabrication. Ihave noted in drawings and actual visula inspection the wood pipes of the 16ft contrabass. These have languids that are not positioned flushwith the mouth of the pipe but closer to 45 degree angle .. Anyone have insight why this type of wood string or string/diapason pipe is thusly made?

[odellorgans]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



[quote user="sesquialtera16"] 16ft contrabass. These have languids that are not positioned flush with  the mouth of the pipe but closer to 45 degree angle   .. Anyone have insight why this type of wood string or string/diapason pipe is thusly made?[/quote]

I could not say precisely, as I don't quite understand exactly what you are describing. Strings, in general, tend to prefer a lower bevel angle (45 is common) as opposed to principals, where a range of 60 to 70 is often seen. These angle treatments are not universal, though. The infamous E.M. Skinner linen-metal diapasons have 1/5 mouths and thick languids at 45 degrees. He needed the lower bevel angle to allow for the deep, close nicking that was applied. Strings also often have nicking that is deep and close, so that is probably part of the reason.

On a metal pipe,the bevel angle will contribute to the factors that control the languid set point.  On a wood pipe, the relationship of the bevel to the the upper lip is often inverted, so the lower angle will tend to push the wind sheet outwards relative to the upper lip.  The relationship of languid and lips is much easier to assure as being in the same plane on wood pipes, due to  the nature of how the pipes are made. The situation differs with metal pipes, since the body and foot are joined as two separate pieces.

What's important to remember are the physics that are in play: the bevel angle helps determine the languid set point, which relates to the location of the upper lip.  Under ideal circumstances, the wind sheet strikes the upper lip dead on, and these angles help control that, as well as controlling how far up the pipe can safely be cut.  The height of the cutup, will, in turn, determine how loud the pipe can become before it speech becomes unstable, or, depending on how hard the pipe is being "pushed" (wind pressure, toe/flue relationships, hole schedule), when the pipe will overblow.

In terms of scale, string mouths tend to be narrower; in the bass, bridges and ears are used to help stabilize the wind sheet. These factors also contribute.  It's among the things that make string voicing more challenging than flutes and principals, since in process, you often have to take the bridge out the work on the languid and lips.

[Guest]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?

The wood equivalent of a metal pipe languid is built into the wood pipe and putting ones hand into a large pedal pipe of open construction the hand should go straight back to the back wall of the -pipe. I have seen drawings and visually inspected large wood pedal pipes wherein when placing the hand into the pipe as described above the hand finds a sloped languid going downward at around a 45 degree angle instead of the usual experience as stated above where the hand would normally follow the ''wood languid'' straight back to the back wall of the pipe. The angled ''wood languids'' are not merely angles or beveled at the mouth but all the way to the back of the pipe. How does thia construction technique influence bass pipe speech?

[odellorgans]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



[quote user="sesquialtera16"] The angled ''wood languids'' are not merely angles or beveled at the mouth but all the way to the back of the pipe. How does thia construction technique influence bass pipe speech?[/quote]

I am guessing you are referring to the "sunk" or "sloped" style of block found in the construction wooden string pipes, most often attributed to Shulze? If you look more closely at these, you'll see they still have a bevel at the languid point.

I can't say  what advantage or disadvantage sunk/sloped might have over a straight block, other than it reduces the volume of the block area. Theoretically it might quicken the pipe, (strings, especially larger ones, have a tendency to have slower onset of speech) but this ignores other factors, like the size, shape and area of the pipe foot, and the configuration of the windchest. It could also possibly help shape the wind sheet prior to being forced into the windway, but I am unaware of any substantive study on this.  Ultimately,  the direction and size of the wind sheet is controlled by the languid bevel angle, flue opening, ears and bridge, if any. The are scores of styles employed for beards and bridges, some that are quite exotic. There are likewise scores of block/cap configurations, each suited to their own purpose. The usefulness and capability in true differentiation of tone of some of the more unique ones can be debated. 

I would suggest  Audsley, Volume II, Chapter 24 for a full discussion on wood pipe construction with the understanding that it is far from a final authority on the topic.  John Nolte would be someone to consult, as he builds wooden pipes for the trade and  is quite knowledgeable about wooden pipe construction, especially the more exotic forms.

 

[Guest]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?



Thnx again

My own suspicion has to do with the quickness of pipe speech

Noel Bonavia-Hunt of London is referred to in the article on wood violones

he says it was not likely possible to make 32s of that style but ems did that in 1910 at St John the Divine

my impression of german strings pre-1900 is that some were slow as were some usa made 19th c strings

gdh brought to these shores the bearded diapason of wood or contrabass that is in various scales from large to small

the organ i can use has a huge one with all of the boom of the open wood plus the harmonic development so that you can play staccato notes on the low pipes and they hang on after you release the pedal key

The matter of frein harmonique or beard

the contrabass 1930 gdh with large diameter beard later replaced with smaller dia beard in 1959 by his successor

any ideas on the effect of the one beard vesus the other?

[pipecutter]

Re: Flue Pipe Voicing--What Is It and How Is it Done?

[quote user="myorgan"]


]

Stupid question(s)--Is that (proportional divider) a tool or a formula? With either, how would I know where to strike the line? Is the line stricken vertically or horizontally?

It is a tool. Picture an X. The dividers allow you to move the point where the two lines of the X intersect. This allows you to change the proportions. It also has sharp points at each of the 4 ends. If you wanted a "1/4" cutup, you would set them to the ratio of 1:4 by sliding the movable center part to "4". Then when you measured the width of the mouth with the long side of the X. Then you would flip them over and scribe a line with the short side. That would make the line parallel with the lower lip

[quote user="pipecutter"] Then you would align the upper and lower lips, make sure there was a reasonable opening in the toe of the pipe and then blow the pipe by mouth or organ chest to see if it speaks at all.[/quote]

Is this so they are aligned horizontally or to give it an overbite or underbite? Really, no pun intended. Just trying to be as descriptive as possible so the layperson can understand.

That depends in part to the type of pipe it is and how it was built. I was vague on purpose. There are instances when any one of those alignment choices might be appropriate

[quote user="pipecutter"] Knock it up . . . .[/quote]

What I could do with that one!!![6] Would certainly cut down on the expense of reproducing pipes![;)]

I'm afraid any information I could contribute to that question would result in this thread being refiled further down the forum page!

Thanks for this thread. It's good to have a refresher on the basics from time to time. Many times we assume others on the forum know what we're talking about, and we all know what that does!!!

Thanks again.

Michael

[/quote]