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Just played real pipes for the first time.

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  • Just played real pipes for the first time.

    I had my very firstorgan lesson yesterday on a real pipe organ!
    http://www.stlukewinnipeg.com/organ.html
    http://www.stlukewinnipeg.com/organ_...ml#OrganPhotos

    Facinating but frustrating too. A great instument.


    I couldn't play it any good though. The delay between the moment you pressed a key and the pipe 'spoke' was anything from about 30 milliseconds from the high pitched notes in the pipe ranks at the front of the church, to about 300 ms from the low pipes at the back of the church. You'd have to develope a skill of being able to play 'ahead' of the sound, or listening to yourself play 'behind' the sound. Its a skill I simply don't possess.
    Tell you what, I'll stick to Hammond organs


    It also made me quite impressed at how good toasters really are, in other words, there wasn't something so "magical and undiscoverd" compared to an Allen I had played recently before, and in terms of latency issues I'd rather play the Allen.


    Just my personal pref is all.

  • #2
    Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



    Spotty,




    Interesting report on your first pipe playing. From the photos and specs it looks like a pretty awesome instrument, and I'm sure the church enjoys it very much. You are lucky to have access to such an organ.




    Don't be quickly discouraged, though. It takes someadapting to go from one organ to another, pipe or otherwise, as they all have different characteristics and quirks.




    Too bad there seems to be so much latency in playing this one. Of course there is no way around the natural delay when pipes are at a great distance from the console, as is the case with that antiphonal. Perhaps what you experienced with the other pipes will eventually seem more normal and agreeable to you after you've played it a few times.




    If you are correct about the 30 ms delay for the front organ, that is actually not bad at all. Equivalent to being 30 feet from the pipes, as sound travels about 1 foot per millisecond. But it's possible your sense of the delay is exaggerated because you aren't yet accustomed to the speech characteristics of the stops, having played on Hammond and other electronics. Pipes don't necessarily produce mature tone instantly when keyed, but may produce certain transient sounds for a few milliseconds before the sustained tone. You will become used to that when you get comfortable playing pipes.




    Yes, one of the virtues of an electronic is the reliably prompt speech. There are other pros and cons which have been widely discussed here. Nothing wrong with owning one or playing one in church, far as I'm concerned. But most of us do love to play pipes when we get the chance.




    Please do keep up the lessons and the practice. You will never be sorry that you did.




    John


    John
    ----------
    *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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    • #3
      Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



      2 nice posts and very informative




      i agree with dont give up after one time




      its a slow process to get used to




      one detail




      ''reliably prompt speech''




      actually i dont believe non-pipes speak

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



        I have a suggestion for overcoming a time lag - if you are playing a distant division it is helpful to couple it to a very soft stop that is closer to you. The idea is to only listen to the nearby stop and ignore thethe rest as best you can.




        If all of the pipes are far away then you are really at a disadvantage. In those situations I find I must disregard what I am hearing and rely on touch alone. That can be a very unhappy situation for an organist; in an ideal situation the console should be moveable (or there should be two consoles).




        But... as John mentioned, it is possible to get used to just about anything with a little practice.




        One thing I don't like about electronic instruments is that theirstoplists and soundscan seem so 'homogenized' and predictable. What I like about this pipe organ is that it has many unusual surprises in the specification - it would take time and careful planning on the part of the organist in order to understand the instrument andshow it at its best. I like that!

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



          spotty, that looks like a wonderful organ.




          I recall encountering a time lag while playing a Bach Prelude and Fugue, particularly the fugue part, on a 100+ rank pipe organ. Oddly enough, when I played the Reger, Boellmann, etc. I did not encounter it, it only happened with the Bach. It was most interesting. I would play the fugue, but even though I could see my fingers going at it, it was as if I heard it only a bit later, giving me the feeling that my tempo needed to be stricter and the fugue needed to be more controlled. Yet no matter how strict I was with myself, how much I made sure I stayed in control, it still felt that way. When my teacher came the day before my recital, I told him about it. So, he watched me and listened to me play it at different parts of this really huge church. To him it sounded just fine. So I had to make myself ignore what I was hearing and concentrate hard only on what my fingers and feet were doing.




          But, I'd play that awesome organ in that grand space anyday. It was a wonderful experience of which I am most thankful for. And, I enjoyed myself so immensely, that when I came in advance to familiarize myself with the instrument, I played there for about 4 hours straight and was annoyed at my stomach for being hungry and making me have to stop for 10 minutes to eat!




          Ahhhh...nothing like a monster pipe organ in a monster space!!! [:D]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



            So stick with it Spotty, sitck with it. You are most fortunate to be able to practice there. Give it time, you will love it.




            (I tried to add this to my first post, but for whatever reason, my computer won't let me).




            Hmmm, Oscar Wilde referred to TVs and such as "modern inconveniences." LOL!

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.

              Thanks guys, good feedback.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.

                [quote user="ReedGuy"]


                ...but even though I could see my fingers going at it, it was as if I heard it only a bit later, giving me the feeling that my tempo needed to be stricter and the fugue needed to be more controlled. Yet no matter how strict I was with myself, how much I made sure I stayed in control, it still felt that way....So I had to make myself ignore what I was hearing and concentrate hard only on what my fingers and feet were doing. ...[/quote]




                Pretty much sums it up exactly!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



                  I remember the same thing the first time I played real pipes. I was about 14 and getting ready for a recital (my first on pipes!). I started playing and promptly slowed down to a snail's pace as I waited for the pipes to 'catch up' to my fingers. My teacher stopped me part way, explained it and said to not listen too much and concentrate on playing the keys.




                  I did find that my ear adjusted fairly quickly to the delay. I still have issues on pipes, however, when I'm playing a run of 1/8 notes with one hand and 1/4 or 1/2 notes with the other. They end up being unsychronized as my hand with the 1/8 noteswill unconciously wait for the pipes with the other hand merrily goes along. I really have to concentrate on that.




                  Regards
                  Gary

                  -Gary

                  If it's not baroque, don't fix it.
                  YouTube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/thevande...?feature=guide
                  Web Site (with sheet music): http://www.garyvanderploeg.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: Just played real pipes for the first time.



                    i played the great organ at john the divine wherein the chancel organ is at least 500 ft away from the state trumpet




                    if you try to listen to what you are playing antiphonally against the main organ you are doomed




                    the sound you hear is syncopated




                    must play and not listen

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