The Pope wants a big new organ!

[Guest]

His Eminence wants a big new organ for St. Peter's Rome. Well he doesn't really but let's pretend that he does and he has immense riches to finance this new organ.

If you were asked to design the instrument:

[*]Would you make a big one or divide it up in sections for different parts of the cathedral[*]What special features would you add to make the organ stand-out in the largest cathedral in the world[*]Would it be an all digital or pipe or a hybrid[*]Which builder or builder(s) would you employ[/list]

Describe the organ dimensions, stop numbers and it's features rather than doing huge long lists of the specification.


Be as imaginative, innovative or treat it as much as a fantasy as you want.

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



Aloha Greg,

Ok, I'll bite - even though this is a somewhat risible enterprise and definitely a work in futile guesstimation.  Aristide Cavaille-Coll/Charles Mutin designed an instrument for St. Peter's Basilica - that would be the size and the disposition of the instrument: if my memory serves me - around 124 stops. It would be pipe, no doubt about it. Charles Mutin had specced a 64 stop in the pedal - if my recollection is correct.  Maybe SB32 has the inside scoop about C-C/Mutin at St. Peter's.  I definitely would not entrust it to any Italian builders - probably Pels & van Leeuwen. From what I understand the founder of that company had apprenticed in Paris with C-C and had received a copy of pipe scalings and other secrets from C-C.

[Menschenstimme]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



Benedict XVI is His Holiness. Cardinals are His Eminence. Unless the cardinal is a royal pain in the arse, then he would be called His Enema.

[:$][;)]

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



I would take my 8,000 stop digital organ, make it purely pipe, and ship it to Rome :)

 I would also ask Yamaha if they can build their first pipe organ for it. I would also ask Yamaha if they can supply the percussions and the pianos for the project.

I would also increase the console from 7 manuals to the original 11 manuals. 

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!

[quote user="onemore7manualorgan"]

I would take my 8,000 stop digital organ, make it purely pipe, and ship it to Rome :)

 I would also ask Yamaha if they can build their first pipe organ for it. I would also ask Yamaha if they can supply the percussions and the pianos for the project.

I would also increase the console from 7 manuals to the original 11 manuals. 

[/quote]

 

I would pay money to see the faces of the other members of the hypothetical organ selection committee when you suggested that :D

[davidecasteel]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



St. Peter's Basilica has such awesome acoustics that a really large instrument would overpower the space. Also, placement is not critical except for those portions of the instrument intended to support singing by the choir or the congregation--those portions must be close to the singers to avoid the confusion of sound delays and reverberation (of which there is plenty). I wouldn't even dare to deign offering a design--I think the modest instrument they have probably is really sufficient for any purposes other than concerts, and I don't think they do much concertizing in St. Peter's, do they?

David

[Hammondlover]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!

[quote user="MenchenStimme"]


Benedict XVI is His Holiness. Cardinals are His Eminence. Unless the cardinal is a royal pain in the arse, then he would be called His Enema.

[:$][;)]

[/quote]

Oh Menchie that's terrible! LOL! Stop watching the Three Stooges already!

"I would pay money to see the faces of the other members of the hypothetical organ selection committee when you suggested that"

And I would love to see the look on everybody's faces when I make the following suggestion:

A Hammond and 40 tone cabinets BWAHAHAHA!

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!

[quote user="davidecasteel"]


I think the modest instrument they have probably is really sufficient for any purposes other than concerts, and I don't think they do much concertizing in St. Peter's, do they?[/quote]

FWIW, I've never seen a recording of that instrument in any shop. I have no idea what it sounds like.

The Bishop of Rome hath no jurisdiction in this Realm of England. (Thomas Cramner, The Book of Common Prayer, article XXXVII.)

Let the Pope do as he wishes. He is not my Pope. As long as he denys a woman's right to choose and acceptance of female priests, I will not not deal with him.

Period.

[Menschenstimme]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



But seriously folks:

I imagine that many members are already aware of the following:

http://pws.prserv.net/usinet.danance/chorg/vatorg.html

[soubasse32]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



[quote user="Kéraulophone"]Aristide Cavaille-Coll/Charles Mutin designed an instrument for St. Peter's Basilica - that would be the size and the disposition of the instrument: if my memory serves me - around 124 stops. It would be pipe, no doubt about it. Charles Mutin had specced a 64 stop in the pedal - if my recollection is correct. Maybe SB32 has the inside scoop about C-C/Mutin at St. Peter's.[/quote]The organ (as of1887) was to have155 registers, 28 pédales de combinaisonand approximately8,316pipes; there was no 64' stop in the 1875 specification (I don't have the Mutin spec), but the 1875 Pedal was to havefour 32' flues and one 32' reed; there was also a10 2/3' flue and a 10 2/3' reed stop. The manual compass was to be 61 notes.

[quote user="davidecasteel"]St. Peter's Basilica has such awesome acoustics that a really large instrument would overpower the space.[/quote]

Au contraire! [8-|] Big spaces call for heroic instruments - youfind this in the world's greatest cathedrals. I implicitly trust Cavaillé-Coll's genius when it comes to building the right organ for a given space.

In the 1875proposalfor St. Peter's, the meticulously balanced disposition was as follows:

• I Grand-Orgue/Grand-Choeur: 22 stops/16 stops


• II Bombardes: 16 stops


• III Positif: 16 stops


• IV Récit-expressif: 16 stops


• V Solo-expressif: 16 stops


• Pédale: 22 stops
[/list]


This is the only organ I would ever wish to be at the Vatican. Cavaillé-Coll was quite possibly the greatest organbuilder that ever lived; toleave his greatest creation unbuilt seems like a tragedy.

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



Master SB32,

Thanx for your information - 'Tis grace in action when you share so generously of your knowledge base.  If my memory serves me, the Pope at the time when Cavaille-Coll made his impassioned plea to built the great organ he envisioned, had concluded that St. Peter's had a lack of funds and was to have uttered: 'Suspendimus Organa Nostra."  Yes, 'tis a great tragedy that the instrument was never built.  Personally, I don't think that funds were lacking - what probably was lacking was the political will.  I share you implicit trust of C-C and his genius.

Cheerio,

Kphone 

[organpower]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



I would chose the Mutin spec and have Casavant build it. The only restriction would be that Jean-Louis Coignet would have to do all 0f the tonal work on it.

 

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!

How many on the forum knew that Henry Willis III had an in with the vatican via Fernanado Germani and a Willis the size of the Liverpool Cathedral organ was planned but not realized for St Pete?

[Guest]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



Casavant to build a Mutin specced St. Peter's Basilica organ?  Yikes!!! You scare me!  C-C's 1875 version is just perfectly grand for the grand space - Mutin is just overkill.  C-C is the Master Builder whose name will forever be mentioned throughout the history of the organ.  Mutin's name will soon be consigned to obloquoy.  Master SB32, please weigh in on this matter again and help to set straight the real deal.  

I seriously doubt that the Mutin spec would fit inside the case that C-C designed.  He probably would have had to make some serious widening and lengthening of the case which probably would have blown all the classical proportions of the case straight to hell.  

[soubasse32]

Re: The Pope wants a big new organ!



[quote user="Kéraulophone"]Casavant to build a Mutin specced St. Peter's Basilica organ? Yikes!!! You scare me! C-C's 1875 version is just perfectly grand for the grand space - Mutin is just overkill. C-C is the Master Builder whose name will forever be mentioned throughout the history of the organ. Mutin's name will soon be consigned to obloquoy. Master SB32, please weigh in on this matter again and help to set straight the real deal.[/quote]I can only agree. [:)] Cavaillé-Coll knew precisely what he was doing.

Casavant? There was a time whenCasavant wantedto be thoughtas successors to the French symphonic school of organbuilding.

But... they are not.