Rural Church Small Casavant Pipe Organ Repair Advice

[P1ns]

Apologies if I'm posting in the wrong spot, and for being an organ neophyte.

Background:
Amateur church musician in the northwoods with a piano / midi background -- but love the sound of the organ. Our church's little 1981 Casavant Pipe Organ is no longer played regularly, although I'm firing it up for one responsorial on Holy Saturday (hands only...piano player). Church has a limited budget and low interest in the organ, but it needs TLC.

Here's what I (think I) know about it so far:
Casavant Brothers, St. Hyacinthe Quebec, 1981
Second installation, organ was moved down from the old choir loft in early 1990s when a 19th Century Sanctuary was replaced with a much larger worship space. Despite the fact that it now resides in a larger Sanctuary it easily fills the church with sound. Single manual, pedals, three stops on the left: sub bass, pedal to manual, and tremulant. Six (or maybe five) stops on the right, need to write down the names but top to bottom they go from high and brassy to lower and softer. I'm too dumb to know how many ranks, but there are wooden boxes with wooden handles on top that appear to contain pipes behind the organ, and there are two ranks of pipes visible from the front of the organ. If anyone is interested in discussing this I can post some pictures, I'd love to have the benefit of your expertise.

Questions:
Q1) One of the pedals is not working. Some of the pipes are out of tune. Some of the front rank pipes are dented. One of the stop handles is chipped but working. One of the lower keys is stuck down, but still sounds / silences when key pressure is applied / released. I have no idea if damage was done in the move or later. Would these be expensive repairs?
Q2) How does one go about finding a reputable technician? We are a 3.5 hour drive from Minneapolis or Milwaukee.
Q3) How frequently should routine maintenance happen on this type of organ? Presume it's much more expensive than tuning a piano.

Problem:
Don't think the church would commit to an expensive repair / maintenance since the organ is never played (except by me once a year). Bringing someone up north to do an estimate might be something to personally save up for, since paying for an on site evaluation would be a non-starter for the church.

If someone is interested in discussing this little organ I can get post pictures and research some more details...thanks for your patience with an organ ignoramus!

[Larason2]

Welcome to the forum!

I personally think these Casavants are quite nice, I've attended a few churches with one regularly. Some of your problems should be an easy fix (like the tuning), some will need professional help (like fixing the dented pipes). If there's any other pipe organs where you are, talk to the people caring for them what they do for maintenance. Usually organs should be tuned twice per year, in the fall after it's gotten cold and before Christmas, and before Easter once it's gotten humid again. Otherwise your reeds will probably be unusable. You can also call organ builders in your state and ask them. If I were you, I'd save up and get a technician to tune it and solve some of the problems like the keys/pipes that don't sound, or don't work right.

From a quick google search, looks like there's Nolte and Wahl organ builders in Wisconsin.

[P1ns]

Super Larason2, thanks for the quick response and the good advice. I'll see if I can talk to someone at Nolte and Wahl. Happy Easter!

[Larason2]

Thanks, you too!

[Coenraads]

By all means show us some pictures. If hiring a technician turns out to be too impractical or expensive, then doing basic repairs on a small organ such as this should be within your capabilities, if you are at all technically adept. This would be preferable to letting the instrument fall into disrepair and become unusable.

1. Pedal not working? Pull out the pedal board and closely examine the mechanism. This is not rocket science. Send us a picture and we may be able to advise.

2. Pipes out of tune? Tuning can be learned and we can step you through it. If the organ does not have any reeds, that greatly simplifies the process.

3. Dented pipes? Unless it is severe, dents are of no consequence and I wouldn't worry about that. If you need to repair a dent, it's not that hard but it depends a lot on the pipe size and material, e.g. pipe metal (tin + lead) or zinc. A picture would help.

4. Stuck key. Remove the front piston rail and take a peek inside. This should be an obvious problem and an easy repair.

And yes, do give us a stop list.

One final thing. Has the blower motor been oiled recently? If not take a look at it, and if you send a picture, we may be able to advise.

Before you attempt any of this, make sure you have permission from the church wardens.

[Coenraads]

Some years ago, the local organ builder and I did a presentation for local organists on how to do touch up tuning on a pipe organ.
I put some of the notes on my website:

https://sites.google.com/site/casava...ing-101-part-a

https://sites.google.com/site/casava...ing-101-part-b

This may give you some idea of what is involved should you take this on. We'd be happy to supply you with more detailed instructions if you decide to proceed.

[P1ns]

Thank you so much Coenraads for the advice and assistance. I owe some photos, and a review of the notes on your site. Will scrupulously observe your caution about getting permission before proceeding -- my Dad grew up on the farm, but I didn't capture all his skills. Happy Easter!

[P1ns]

Had a wonderful time perusing your site, great information on tuning -- thank you!

[Pipeorganbuilder]

Very nice collection of notes you have shared.

[P1ns]

Organ got kudos at Easter. Here are the photos that I've gotten so far. Need a screwdriver to go any further, awaiting permission.
Left stops bottom to top are: Subbass 16', Manual to Pedal, Tremulant.
Right stops bottom to top are: Gedakt 8', Praestant 4', Rohrflotte 4', Oktave 2', Mixtur III.
Sadly don't know what any of those mean, with the obvious exception of "Manual to Pedal" but I'll do some homework.
The Pedal for "A" below the middle "C" pedal doesn't make any sound, the other pedals work.

Would love to have your comments.

[P1ns]

A couple more photos:

[Coenraads]

Wow! What a nice little organ and except for a few missing key caps, looks in perfect order. I see the blower box at the left. Do take a look inside and check to see if there is provision for lubrication. Don't over oil. A few drops of light oil in each cup should do it.

The Gedakt 8 is the wooden rank at the back of the organ. The tall ones should never need tuning and the short ones are likely also in tune but are easily adjusted by "wiggling" the stoppers up or down.

The Preastant 4 are the facade pipes at the front. I don't see tuning collars so either they are "cone tuned" or they are scroll tuned at the back and you will need access inside the organ. In that case you will need advice on how to tune them. Take a look.

The remaining ranks should be inside the case.

As far as tuning the mixture goes, that is a whole other kettle of fish. I have an article which I published in Organ Canada which explains how it is done and I can share that with you. In the mean time, best not to touch it. If it's out of tune, just don't use it. You still have a fine instrument without it.

If you want to learn more about tuning mixtures, here are the two parts of an article published in Organ Canada which deals with tuning including mixtures.

https://sites.google.com/site/casava...a-tuning-part1

https://sites.google.com/site/casava...-tuning-part-2

Now the big question: This looks like it's a tracker (mechanical) action organ. When you push down a key does it feel like you are operating a mechanical linkage or does it feel like you are just closing a switch? If it's a tracker you will see lots of wooden strips running up and down inside the organ. These are very delicate: treat with care! In that case, a non-working note is probably the result of a defect in the linkage and you should be able to see it.

This organ has considerable value and it would be a shame were it not to be used on a regular basis.
Thanks for sharing. John

[regeron]

Now the big question: This looks like it's a tracker (mechanical) action organ. When you push down a key does it feel like you are operating a mechanical linkage or does it feel like you are just closing a switch? If it's a tracker you will see lots of wooden strips running up and down inside the organ. These are very delicate: treat with care! In that case, a non-working note is probably the result of a defect in the linkage and you should be able to see it.

This organ has considerable value and it would be a shame were it not to be used on a regular basis.
Thanks for sharing. John

Another way to see if it's a mechanical action (and perhaps this is just an addition to John's comments) is to depress the keys without turning the organ on.
If it is a tracker, you'll still hear the movement of parts inside the instrument. If it's not a tracker, you'll only get the sound (if any) of the key moving.

I agree that it looks like a little gem of an instrument.

[johnroper100]

The Gedakt 8 is the wooden rank at the back of the organ. The tall ones should never need tuning and the short ones are likely also in tune but are easily adjusted by "wiggling" the stoppers up or down.

Just a slight correction that it is the 16’ pedal Subbass in the back rather than the 8’ Gedeckt. Depending on the condition of the leather, they may all need to be tuned.

[Coenraads]

Yes, of course! Give my head a shake!*!*!*!*!*

I think the leather will be OK. I've worked on a 100 year old Casavant and the leather was still fine.

[P1ns]

Thank you gentlemen, the feedback is much appreciated! Have not been able to get behind the panels, but using the technique suggested by regeron it appears to be a tracker organ. Will be away for about a month, but end of May hope to be able to get inside and provide a few photos of the inner workings. Thanks again!

[Larrytow]

P1ns, Welcome to the Forum from a fellow Wisconsinite ! Thats a pretty cool little Cassavant you have there, and it's worth having it in working order. Even if it does not get used often at this time, one never knows who may show up sometime and be able to play it for you.

I will be going up to Polar ( near Antigo ) in a couple - few weeks - or a month or so, to do some work on an organ, and if you are close(ish) to there, or on the way, I would be willing to stop in and check it out in person on that trip. I could likely give you a better idea of what needs to be fixed, and an overall opinion on its current condition.

You say you are up in the "northwoods", and here that can cover a lot of the state of course. If you are more in the central part of the state, I'm near Wautoma, and so you might be closer than I'm thinking.

If you might want me to do that, please send me a Private Message here, and we can discuss this off the forum. In your PM, please include at least your first name, your e-mail address, and a telephone number.

[P1ns]

Larrytow , thanks so much for your very kind reply back in April.

Must have missed your trip to Polar by now, but that's about 2 hours ESE of my location. Finally (today) got permission to open up the organ, took some photos from the right access panel. It is indeed a tracker organ, as discussed by Coenraads.

Inside were typewritten instructions from Casavant Brothers on how to oil the blower box, but I confess to being quite intimidated. Was unable to determine what is wrong with the malfunctioning pedal as it's basically in the center of the enclosure -- perhaps a more powerful light might help. There is an access panel on the left of the organ, but it's blocked by the mixing board and I do not have permission to move that.

[myorgan]

Don't be intimidated by the insides of the organ. All it is are mechanical levers, and it should be fairly straightforward to diagnose if you have someone to move the pedal for you. It can be as simple as a nut slipping off the linkage, and that would be apparent when compared to a note next to the one not working.

I look forward to your updates when you are able to get inside the organ with an assistant.

Michael

[Coenraads]

Interesting! I think I the see adjustments for pedal height (the black threaded screw on the left) and the horizontal trackers (threaded black knobs on the right). Check for anything out of line or out of adjustment. I also think I see rollers that transfer the action between the left and the right. I don't know how this fits in with the arrangement of the pipes on the pedal chest.

I think you'll get a much better view if you remove the kneeboard directly under the keyboard. It appears to me there are two handles that stick out slightly and if you lift up on these the panel can be removed.

In typical Casavant fashion, everything looks to be solidly engineered and made.

[P1ns]

Hello again, back from the travel wars. Was able to spend a few minutes with the Casavant, and using your fine suggestions I discovered and corrected the problem with the A below "middle C" pedal. Trying to upload images, but looks like they are all stripped above so maybe I'm de-permissioned? If it loads, here's what I saw:

Turned on the organ and was very pleased with myself until I discovered that another pedal had been deliberately muted, because it is stuck on. This was the D above "middle C". Someone back in the mists of time had removed a square cover from the back of the pipe so the air would just blow through:

I tried to trace the linkage to the stuck pedal but got confused. Also, the linkage goes into a box at the lower back of the organ, so I lost the trace at that point. Here's a photo:

Not sure where to go from here, but I've had several offers of assistance from you kind folks so will try to get permission to spend some money from the church authorities. Meanwhile here's the cool typewritten / drafted blower info sheet I found inside the organ:

Lastly found a card on the blower box that indicated "Manuel Wind Pressure 80mm Key Travel 9mm, Pedal Wind Pressure 80mm, Key Travel 14.5mm, Casavant Freres Limitee 17th Sept. 1981" with the number 3521 at the top, presumably that is the number of this particular organ.

Apologies if the photos didn't come through, not sure what I'm doing wrong there.

[P1ns]

Thanks Coenraads, I have a question in to Admin, maybe I exceeded a limit.

[Admin]

Pictures have been restored. This was a Forum software glitch and not a user quota or permission issue.

[P1ns]

Photos are up now, thanks to Admin. Please flip to page 2 to see them.