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Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?

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  • Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



    What is it about the voicing of Cavaille-Coll organs that they have such an emotional effect upon me?




    Also, what is the correct pronounciation of Coll? I've always pronounced it "call" but at this summer's OHS convention I heard it pronounced "cole".


  • #2
    Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



    I say "cah-vye-yuh-cole" - whether that is correct or not remains to be seen.




    [:S]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?

      It's a tricky one, my French speaking wife comes to the rescue: cah-vah-yai is the best I can write it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



        I don't have difficulty with the Cavaille part - it's the Coll that I differed with. Call versus Cole.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



          "Cole" has too much of the American-sounding "oh" dipthong, which turns into a sort of 'w' at the end.




          "Call" is too flat with the "ah" sound.




          The answer is... something in-between.




          It is not just the vowel sound, but the "L" must be lightly articulated. American "L" sounds are much further back, swallowed.




          One word that is very close in French - "bol" (meaning "bowl). Listen to how it is pronounced here:




          bol




          I'll give my thoughts on Cavaillé-Coll voicing momentarily. [8-|]

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



            When I think of the more heart-rending sounds on a Cavaillé-Collorgan, I think primarily of the foundation stops. As Charles Fisk aptly describes it, there is a "cantabile whine" found in the foundations of a Cavaillé-Collorgan,due the treble-ascendent voicing and the particular way each stop works together to achieve an effect that is greater than its individual parts.




            I can do no better than to provide a link to the late Stephen Bicknell's excellent article on the subject: Cavaillé-Coll's four fonds




            It is good to remember that some of what we hear and love today was created by Cavaillé-Coll's top voicers - in particular Gabrieland FélixReinberg. They deserve a good deal of credit too...




            Now for a little sample: [8-|] Frédéric Blanc plays Fleuryon the most excellent, but lesser-known Cavaillé-Coll at Notre-Dame d'Auteuil. More info on this recording.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



              Thank you for pointing me to that most interesting article. Voicing truly is a science.




              And thank you to those who have commented on the pronunciation - having studied French I believe my pronunciation is the correct one and I agree, the French "L" is quite different from our North American pronunciation.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



                Aloha SB32,



                Yes!  that *cantabile whine* - whew!  It gets me reaching for my hankie.  Bicknell's article does go to the heart of the matter with the four *Fonds*.



                 

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                • #9
                  Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



                  I won't try and give you the correct pronunciation personally, but there are several clips on YouTube of Daniel Roth describing the gem at S Sulpice, where I presume one will hear the definitive pronunciation,,,




                  He is also interviewed at S Ouen - again mentioning the master's name.




                  Regards, Paul :-)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



                    [quote user="MarsVltor"] I won't try and give you the correct pronunciation personally, but there are several clips on YouTube of Daniel Roth describing the gem at S Sulpice, where I presume one will hear the definitive pronunciation[/quote]Hmm... If I'm not mistaken Daniel Roth has a pronounced Alsatian accent. [:D]




                    (If he is reading this post, I hope he knows I am teasing him!)




                    Sorry about the earlier link that I posted - it works sometimes, and sometimes it brings up a very confusing home page. Hereare twoother wav files: travaillécol(travaillé rhymes with "Cavaillé" and col rhymes with "Coll")




                    That would be considered definitive since it is spoken by a native Parisian for the purposes of documenting French pronunciation. [8-|]




                    Amusing that "Coll" is actually a Spanish name. [:)]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?

                      But of course - why didn't I think of Youtube? It has responses to most things in life. Thanks for the reminder.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?

                        [quote user="soubasse32"]


                        When I think of the more heart-rending sounds on a Cavaillé-Collorgan, I think primarily of the foundation stops. As Charles Fisk aptly describes it, there is a "cantabile whine" found in the foundations of a Cavaillé-Collorgan,due the treble-ascendent voicing and the particular way each stop works together to achieve an effect that is greater than its individual parts.




                        I can do no better than to provide a link to the late Stephen Bicknell's excellent article on the subject: Cavaillé-Coll's four fonds




                        It is good to remember that some of what we hear and love today was created by Cavaillé-Coll's top voicers - in particular Gabrieland FélixReinberg. They deserve a good deal of credit too...




                        Now for a little sample: [8-|] Frédéric Blanc plays Fleuryon the most excellent, but lesser-known Cavaillé-Coll at Notre-Dame d'Auteuil. More info on this recording.




                        [/quote]




                        My own impression of CC organs is that the sound, both individual stops and ensemble, frequently(not always) has an orchestral or symphonic quality to it. Agree or disagree?




                        Bill

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



                          Thanks for the recording Sir SB. I just followed up by ordering the 24 pieces! I hadn't been introduced to Fleury yet. Can't wait to try this out when our organ's finally back in! And yes, I think the combination of stops contributes to the distinctivness of the sound. Also, does 'aging' of the pipes add a little something?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?

                            Ludwig, where did you order them? I would like to order them as well!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cavaille-Coll Voicing - why does it tear my heart out?



                              http://www.di-arezzo.co.uk/accueil_c...d3f50be4921b23




                              The collection was reasonable, The shipping rather steep, But I thought for 24 pieces I'll bite. Hope at least 1/2 of them are useful!

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