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I'm going to add a second row of toe studs. Is there a standard distance between rows?
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Add the 2nd row of toe studs on what organ? I did that on one of my Allens about a decade ago. If you need measurements, let me know.
MichaelWay too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:- MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
- Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
- 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos
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I don't have a link but AGO Console Specifications aren't hard to find. The first three Google hits reference the same document. The AGO specs are brand Agnostic.Originally posted by tschnuckel View Post
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This isn't specified beyond:
PEDAL ACCESSORIES
Knee panel and toe-board carrying the pedal accessories to follow the 9 ft. radius curve of the distant end of the sharp keys. -
Michael's (@myorgan) linked project gives a wealth of insight. But even without that, if you are adding a second row of pistons you are already supplied with the information you need. The pistons are measured 'center to center' horizontally and vertically, and, as you can see, the vertical separation is offset by 1/2 the horizontal separation. So, measure (metric would work better I think) the horizontal separation between any two of your existing Pedal pistons. Measure the same distance vertically. That is your baseline arc for your second row. It follows the same arc as the bottom row. Find the stagger of the 2nd row by finding the midpoint of the horizontal separation. Bob's your Uncle.
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If you are altering your instrument all you need to think about is HOW LONG IS YOUR LEG>Comment
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Yeah it's an Allen I'm adding a second row. I didn't know if there was a standard, but when I compare the current Allen line up, they aren't always spaced vertically the same. Depends if they the studs are mounted the curved block, knee board, designer order, or even if there are internal speakers. Seems Allen varies it in all situations.Originally posted by myorgan View Post
How much above did you go, or did you just eyeball it and move on? LOL
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In my case, I used a current organ (ADC-4300) that already had two rows of toe studs on the left, measured the distance, and copied that on the right. I just moved the trailer to the garage with that organ in it, so I should be able to get some photos/measurements for you tomorrow.
Meanwhile, check out this thread where I added toe studs to the ADC-4300: Start here–https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...166#post243166
then continue here (post #25): https://organforum.com/forums/forum/...423#post350423
Michael
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OK, here are the measurements–in inches.
The first 2 photos are from my ADC-8000. In this case, the organ has wooden bolsters to move the studs closer to the pedals, and to provide distance between the pedals and the studs as you go up. Also note the labels are placed on the horizontal top of the bolsters (in most cases).
The last photo is from my ADC-5400 where there is no bolster between the top two rows, and the labels are placed on the vertical surface above the stud. I need to provide a caution, though. When I added the toe studs to my ADC-4300, I made the mistake of adding a third row close to the expression boxes. In effect, those toe studs are so close to me (2-manual organ), I need to raise my entire leg to get any of the toe studs on the top row near the boxes. The extremities work well, but not the ones close to the knees. I'm leaving them there for now, just because I don't want to end up with senseless holes in the console where the studs are now, if they are moved.
I hope this helps you make decisions about how and where to place your toe studs.
One more item: I'm not sure which model organ you have, but jbird604 rightly advised me I could only add toe studs on my ADC-4300, and wire them to the companion piston in the stop rail. If there is no piston, I don't know of any way a toe stud could be added and have it functional. I'm sure one of our genius experts could figure it out, but I'm not that person.😆
Michael
Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:- MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
- Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
- 11 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 7 Pianos
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Yes, myorgan is correct in saying about the "companion pistons". Allen did not allow for extra toe studs or pistons to be added to their digital organs. There is usually one spare piston and one latch. The only way extra piston buttons and/or toe studs can be added for other uses would require a custom design in the software. About the only thing that you can do if you want to add the toe studs is to wire them to existing pistons as mentioned above.Comment
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In that case, I KNOW MOS and ADC organs can be modified, so it stands to reason the MDS series could as well. I'm not sure about analog organs, but I know someone we can ask. There's a thread right now on restoring an older Allen analog model. Perhaps we can ask him?
Then there's the organs with setter boards (like TC-3 and Rodgers analog organs). I'm not sure how they work.
Michael -
It wouldn't be my thinking that ANY standard organ, digital or pipe, could have more toe studs than there are General or (Pedal) Divisional pistons! VPO's can, because the toe studs can communicate with the central processor on their own MIDI channel. -
@Leisesturm,
It is possible to have more toe studs than pistons. On some Allens, there are toe studs to add a 32' stop (or another function), even without the companion piston. All they need is a reversible board and the proper EProms on other boards inside the organ. Of course, a companion piston could also be added (as the reverse is true), but I've never heard of it being done.
Michael
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