Hello to all! I am new to the Forum but I have been an avid reader for a few months now. This site is wonderful! I have an question. Although in my opinion there will never be another Cavaille-Coll, I am curious if there are any builders who build a good french style/voiced organ with similar voicing/scaling characteristics. My church will be in the market in the near future and I'm researching possibilities. (probably 20 ranks or less) Thanks for your input.
Guilbault-Thérien of Canada built a successful Orgue de Chœur for Brick Church in Manhattan. I'm not sure if they are still building organs.
Casavant builds in a French style, although they typically modify the style towards something more contemporary (as would most modern builders).
American builder C.B. Fisk has built some French-styled instruments including the large instrument at Lausanne.
Schoenstein built several organs in the Orgue de Chœur style.
The Dutch firm van den Heuvel builds very close to the style of C-C, including Barker levers, 'stepped' windpressures, etc.
I think the prize however goes to the Swedish firm Åkerman & Lund; the most successful C-C "clone" I've ever played is at the Kallio Church in Helsinki. A remarkable achievement.
As far as I know, the Guilbault-Therrien firm no longer exists, or at least it no longer builds organs. Basically the firm stopped building when Guy Therrien passed away. Guy was telling me that he had secured a contract for a 103 stop C-C style organ for the Brick Presbyterian church NYC. He said he made sure it was going to be at least 1 stop bigger than Saint Sulpice. However, Guy got sick, and died about 7 or 8 months later. The church ended up losing the $250,000 deposit, as the firm couldn't build the instrument without Guy. The the Brick church went to Casavant and had a C-C style organ put in. From what a Casavant rep. told me, they just didn't build a French style organ, they did extensive research in France of a large number of C-C organs, to try to replicate what C-C would have done. It helps when the company's tonal director is also the supervisor of organs in Paris. Means you can crawl in any organ at any time of day to research these organs. I am told the result is a stunning success. This link gives more insight to the Brick organs, http://www.casavant.ca/new_temp/pdf/55-59%20Brick%20-%20Significant%20Accomplishment.pdf
The Choeur organ by Guilbault-Therrien for the Brick Church chapel sounds very nice from a recording I have.
I find most companies when they build a French style organ, they build it in an eclectic manner. In other words, it may be 75% C-C inspried the rest is fill in from other traditions or just following the tonal philosophy of the company. A good example is van den Heuvel. French music sounds very good on their organs, but they can also sound unmistakeably Dutch.
As long as the organs are well built and musical, to me that is more important than building a 100% clone of a C-C.
Thank you. I'm not knowledgeable in all the different styles of French organs or French organ music. In the latter I know only 2 kinds: that which I like and that which I don't. The former is characterized by Franck and the latter by Alain. (Most modern French organ music sounds to me like high-pitched discordant noise.)
I have played and examined a number of North American organs built "in the style of" or "copying" Caville-Coll details. The bigger issue is that these organs were in settings and placements that were often drastically different than their French counterparts would have experienced. The average American congregation would not be well served by emulating this style. As interesting and well built as these instruments were, they were built for the needs of their clients. Furthermore, some of the sounds these instruments produce would come off as harsh and/or ugly in a dry acoustical environment.
If your church is in the market, go listen to organs in person. Recordings tell you very little about an instrument. Good luck!
[quote user="arie v"]The Choeur organ by Guilbault-Therrien for the Brick Church chapel sounds very nice from a recording I have.[/quote]It is also very nice in person.
[quote user="arie v"]I find most companies when they build a French style organ, they build it in an eclectic manner. In other words, it may be 75% C-C inspried the rest is fill in from other traditions or just following the tonal philosophy of the company. A good example is van den Heuvel. French music sounds very good on their organs, but they can also sound unmistakeably Dutch.[/quote]Very true - which is why I said most modern firms will build something a bit more modern/eclectic. Eventually someone will want to play something other than French romantic music on the instrument. [:)]
[quote user="arie v"]As long as the organs are well built and musical, to me that is more important than building a 100% clone of a C-C.[/quote]Precisely.
By the way, I know that Guy Thérien passed away, but was not sure if the company continues or not. I really like their work.
[quote user="pipecutter"]I have played and examined a number of North American organs built "in the style of" or "copying" Caville-Coll details. The bigger issue is that these organs were in settings and placements that were often drastically different than their French counterparts would have experienced. The average American congregation would not be well served by emulating this style. As interesting and well built as these instruments were, they were built for the needs of their clients. Furthermore, some of the sounds these instruments produce would come off as harsh and/or ugly in a dry acoustical environment.[/quote]That is very true - I was going to mention it, but ran out of time. I'm doing as many as four concerts per weekend during this season, sodon't havemuch time for posting. [:)]
I appreciate all of the fine feedback! Our church is Episcopal (building 150 years old with nice acoustics) and the service is very "High Church". We have a small Cassavant tracker (sort of French). The voicing is decent but it would have been nice to have "the rest of the organ." (too small -12 ranks) Placement of a tracker is challenging so we may consider other options. Keep the comments and suggestions coming!
Has anybody heard the new Mander gallery organ in Peachtree Road United Methodist Church, Atlanta, GA, USA? Its stoplist and voicing seem to be inspired by C-C, but I've not heard one in person -- only on CDs. I'm curious whether anybody can make a more informed comparison.
I don't have firsthand experience, though I've heard that it could be louder. Do you know the one at St. Ignatius Loyola? It has the same sort of elegant restraint;admirers of C-C organs will want something a bit bolder.
[quote user="markn"]Has anybody heard the new Mander gallery organ in Peachtree Road United Methodist Church, Atlanta, GA, USA? Its stoplist and voicing seem to be inspired by C-C, but I've not heard one in person -- only on CDs. I'm curious whether anybody can make a more informed comparison.
[/quote]
Aside from the quality of the craftsmanship, it's hard to believe the St. Ignatius instrument and the one in Atlanta came from the same source. To be fair, they are two very different rooms and the needs of the two congregations are also quite different. There is little to nothing Cavaille-Coll in the Atlanta instrument...nor should there be. Those type sounds would not benefit the average United Methodist service.
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