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Do you love Reverb?

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  • Do you love Reverb?

    This question is geared toward players who have played in large theaters or large Halls.

    How much Reverb do you like in your playing? I was listening to Tony F. play in the Manchester Free Trade Hall and i think that the Reverb and the acoustics made the instrument sound bigger then the rank count.

    I think that when the theater organ is allow to have that big rolling sound it sound more real to the real deal. But I want to know from others what their opinion of how much reverb you think is great or what is too much much.
    Instruments:
    22/8 Button accordion.

  • #2
    I do like reverb on theatre and classical pipe organs. I've played a few home pipe installations and they just seem way to dry for me - give me the large auditoria that they were intended for, every time! So on electronic theatre organs or virtual organs, I like my reverb turned up a bit!
    It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

    New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

    Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
    Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
    Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
    Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

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    • #3
      Originally posted by andyg View Post
      I do like reverb on theatre and classical pipe organs. I've played a few home pipe installations and they just seem way to dry for me - give me the large auditoria that they were intended for, every time! So on electronic theatre organs or virtual organs, I like my reverb turned up a bit!
      Everything sounds better with it.
      Instruments:
      22/8 Button accordion.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have always been a fan, but a friend of mine absolutely hates the stop.
        Until The Next Dimension,
        Admiral Coluch.

        -1929 Wangerin Pipe Organ Historian
        -Owner 1982 Rogers Specification 990

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Darth-Car View Post
          I have always been a fan, but a friend of mine absolutely hates the stop.
          Sorry I was speaking in the context of acoustical environment in which the pipe organ speaks into but I will extend the conversation to VPOs
          Instruments:
          22/8 Button accordion.

          Comment


          • #6
            I like as much reverb as possible without everything getting too muddy. If I can control the amount of reverb, it seems to turn into a balance between getting enough reverb to sound amazing but not so much reverb that the notes run together and make it hard to hear all of the effort I'm putting in. I'll turn the reverb up on slower songs with lots of rests and pauses, but turn it down for faster pieces. I only really use the reverb on the organ at church. My home organ's reverb is not real great and has some 60Hz hum that is annoying when playing softly.

            Sam
            Sam
            Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
            Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by samibe View Post
              I like as much reverb as possible without everything getting too muddy. If I can control the amount of reverb, it seems to turn into a balance between getting enough reverb to sound amazing but not so much reverb that the notes run together and make it hard to hear all of the effort I'm putting in. I'll turn the reverb up on slower songs with lots of rests and pauses, but turn it down for faster pieces. I only really use the reverb on the organ at church. My home organ's reverb is not real great and has some 60Hz hum that is annoying when playing softly.

              Sam


              weird do you own a digital system id get that checked out something is leaking or some crossover somewhere sounds like it too me.
              Instruments:
              22/8 Button accordion.

              Comment


              • #8
                At least in the digital domain you have (or should have) control over room size, decay length, reflections etc, as well as the wet/dry mix, so you can have a very clear 'main' sound but with a decent amount of reverb but at a lower level. Akin to moving the mikes (or ears!) closer to the pipe chambers or further away.
                It's not what you play. It's not how you play. It's the fact that you're playing that counts.

                New website now live - www.andrew-gilbert.com

                Current instruments: Roland Atelier AT900 Platinum Edition, Yamaha PSR-S970, Kawai K1m
                Retired Organs: Lots! Kawai SR6 x 2, Hammond L122, T402, T500 x 2, X5. Conn Martinique and 652. Gulbransen 2102 Pacemaker. Kimball Temptation.
                Retired Leslies, 147, 145 x 2, 760 x 2, 710, 415 x 2.
                Retired synths: Korg 700, Roland SH1000, Jen Superstringer, Kawai S100F, Kawai S100P, Kawai K1

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Ben Madison View Post
                  weird do you own a digital system id get that checked out something is leaking or some crossover somewhere sounds like it too me.
                  Fixing the reverb on my organ has been a lower priority. So, I don't know for sure whether my organ has a digital reverb unit and I haven't taken the time yet to track the hum down. I've just noticed that there is only hum when the reverb tab is down. I probably won't get around to troubleshooting it for a few more months.

                  Sam
                  Sam
                  Home: Allen ADC-4500 Church: Allen MDS-5
                  Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, TC Mixer, ADC TC SF2, and MOS TC SF2, ADC TC Cad/Rvt, MOS TC Cad/Rvt, Organ Database, Music Library, etc. PM for unlinked files.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Ben

                    An interesting question that can often stir up strong opinions from either end of the spectrum. Tony Fenelon is a great musician and I am privileged to call him a friend having contact for more than 30 years. Tony will get the best out of any instrument he plays.

                    When you say you feel "Reverb" (the size of the auditorium) "makes this organ sound bigger than it is", are you referring to the number of ranks compared to a concert or cathedral pipe organ?
                    Keep in mind that a "Theatre" pipe organ is on much higher wind pressure than a classical pipe organ making them definitely louder, and "Theatre" pipe organs are highly "Unified" meaning that each rank of pipes can play at multiple footages or octaves at the same time.

                    There are some people who have developed their love of Theatre Organ listening to radio programs and then later records of Studio Theatre Organs. These were further carried on by the likes of Buddy Cole and George Wright who also recorded on organs in a "studio" setting. These have minimal reverb.
                    Theatre Organs in Theatres also have minimal reverb due to the plush furnishings in the room.

                    Theatre type organs were and are also installed in some larger venues like baseball stadiums and skating rinks but recordings of these are not as common.

                    I am a member of TOSA-Q (Theatre organ society of Australia - Queensland division) www.tosaq.com.au Our "Christie" Unit Orchestra is in a fairly large venue with hard walls and floor. It performs fast and loud at the console and has a good dose of reverb from the space, particularly when the hall is empty.

                    I personally do like some reverb. I can't stand an electronic or virtual instrument totally dry, but it needs to be judiciously applied.

                    Regards
                    Rick
                    Rick Whatson
                    Brisbane - Queensland - Australia
                    http://tcptechnology.com.au/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Perhaps it's partly just a preference thing, but I certainly enjoy hearing any organ better in a lively room. A dead space, especially where some acoustical "expert" has put fluffy stuff all over the walls in an attempt to make speech more intelligible and controllable via the sound system -- such a space generally ruins the sound of even a good organ, whether it's electronic or pipe, classical or theater.

                      While many people, including me, enjoy the unadorned up-close sounds made by pipes, and have no objection to hearing the normal noises made by the mechanism, the air sounds and attacks and so on, listening to music without the benefit of the broadening, blending, sweetening effects of room reflections can be quite tiring.

                      As a rule, I find that a room of at least 1000 square feet with a ceiling 16' or higher, with smooth walls and ceiling and normally absorbent objects in the room such as padded furniture and maybe even a tight carpet on the floor will probably have sufficient reflections to make an organ enjoyable without artificial reverb added. If artificial reverb is added, it should not draw attention to itself, just enhance the natural reflections of the room.

                      I have heard "too much" natural reverb, specifically when attending a service a few weeks ago in St. Paul's Cathedral in London. The reflections in there are so strong and sustain the organ tone (and human voices too) so long that the sounds run together and make both music and speech way too muddled for me. The congregation were unable to stay with the organ on the hymns because the sound was not clearly rhythmic. At least that was my impression when attending a single service, from where I sat in the nave near the front. Most other English cathedrals where I've attended services also have a lot of reverb, but less than St. Paul's. The optimum amount must be somewhat less than what you hear there, but you sure don't want to lose it all!
                      John
                      ----------
                      *** Please post your questions about technical service or repair matters ON THE FORUM. Do not send your questions to me or another member by private message. Information shared is for the benefit of the entire organ community, but other folks will not be helped by information we exchange in private messages!

                      https://www.facebook.com/pages/Birds...97551893588434

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                      • #12
                        YesYesYes.....
                        1956 M3, 51 Leslie Young Chang spinet, Korg Krome and Kronos

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                        • #13
                          Depends on what I am playing, sometimes the more technical I get with my playing I tend to like it a little dryer on the classical pieces. It also depends on what voices I am using on the theatre organs, don't want it to start sounding like sustain. The best advice is "use your ear".
                          http://www.lorigraves.com

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jbird604 View Post
                            Perhaps it's partly just a preference thing, but I certainly enjoy hearing any organ better in a lively room. A dead space, especially where some acoustical "expert" has put fluffy stuff all over the walls in an attempt to make speech more intelligible and controllable via the sound system -- such a space generally ruins the sound of even a good organ, whether it's electronic or pipe, classical or theater.

                            While many people, including me, enjoy the unadorned up-close sounds made by pipes, and have no objection to hearing the normal noises made by the mechanism, the air sounds and attacks and so on, listening to music without the benefit of the broadening, blending, sweetening effects of room reflections can be quite tiring.

                            As a rule, I find that a room of at least 1000 square feet with a ceiling 16' or higher, with smooth walls and ceiling and normally absorbent objects in the room such as padded furniture and maybe even a tight carpet on the floor will probably have sufficient reflections to make an organ enjoyable without artificial reverb added. If artificial reverb is added, it should not draw attention to itself, just enhance the natural reflections of the room.

                            I have heard "too much" natural reverb, specifically when attending a service a few weeks ago in St. Paul's Cathedral in London. The reflections in there are so strong and sustain the organ tone (and human voices too) so long that the sounds run together and make both music and speech way too muddled for me. The congregation were unable to stay with the organ on the hymns because the sound was not clearly rhythmic. At least that was my impression when attending a single service, from where I sat in the nave near the front. Most other English cathedrals where I've attended services also have a lot of reverb, but less than St. Paul's. The optimum amount must be somewhat less than what you hear there, but you sure don't want to lose it all!
                            Their is a large problem with that at the boardwalk hall and from what i have read is that the organist has to sing the song he or she is playing in their head or else this giant wave of a sound that is bouncing around behind takes them off, because their is some phasing issue. renovations to the hall somewhat mitigated the problem by cutting down on some of the extra reverb.

                            But recordings in the hall sound much better then if you were to record everything at the console.
                            Instruments:
                            22/8 Button accordion.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Artificial reverb, No. Natural reverb, Yes.

                              I say this as my former church where I was the organist for 34 years had a II/9 pipe organ in an acoustically dead building that sat about 325 people. It was so dead that it felt like the sound stopped before I took my hands off the keys! As organists, imho, we have to adapt to the natural surroundings of where the instrument is located. I was able to play any kind of organ literature on that instrument - even performed the Mendelssohn Sonata I and the Franck E minor Chorale No 3 in concert there with absolutely zero acoustic reverb enhancement.

                              My present church has a natural acoustic of about 2 seconds - perfectly ideal for organ, choir and speech. When the building is full the natural reverb is reduced to about 1/2 second but still acceptable.

                              I really loathe some of the newer digital demo recordings that use so much artificial reverb to enhance the sound that it almost sounds fake. The true test of any digital or analog sound is to hear it without any reverb masking the sound.

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