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George Wood - after removing the stop rail

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  • #31
    If you have the original pieces, which you do, a cabinetry shop can produce duplicate parts for reed organs.

    Did wood transfer from one piece to the other? That would indicate they were GLUED together. I wonder who would do that?
    -- I'm Lamar -- 1967 Allen TC-4 Project (forum thread)
    -- 1899 Kimball Parlor Organ (forum thread)
    -- 1999 Rodgers W5000C and Hauptwerk - spare W5000C for spares
    -- Conn 643 Theater - Hammond M3 and E-112 - Roland RD300nx stage piano
    -- Public domain hymn search: https://songselect.ccli.com/search/r...t=publicdomain

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    • #32
      It looks like the top of the bellows escaped the worst of the damage. If there are splits, they can be epoxied back together. If slivers were pulled out, the missing wood can be filled with bondo.. The particular piece of the foundation that is gone can be fixed by sawing two straight, parallel edges on the remaining wood, and gluing in a new piece of the same thickness, length, width, as what you sawed out.
      I do this operation all to commonly. Did I mention I am a restoration carpenter?
      Casey

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      • #33
        Originally posted by nutmegct View Post

        After using three different woodsaws, including a "kerf saw", none of which would cut into the glue joint, I tried hot water - dripping it along the joint once every ten minutes for several hours. Saws still didn't cut into the joint, so I tried a steel chisel, tapping it gradually deeper into the joint after every hot water application. As I didn't know how thick that wood is, or what was "inside", I guesstimated a one inch depth, and tapped the chisel in about 1.5" total, going about 1/8" at a time. After cutting through the three outward facing sides, I began prying upwards with the chisel.
        I have it from an authoritative source that that the hide glue used for that particular model was made from genuine dinosaur hides! They used to hunt them with 40-pound ships canon in those days....

        I thought a little humor might lessen the pain of that dreaded phrase: "irreparably damaged"

        Good luck!

        Nico
        "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request...

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        • #34
          Believe me, I sure do need some humor!

          As the rubber cloth is basically in good condition, without leaks that I can see - could I just replace the feeder (?) cardboard walls? then use hide glue to put all the pieces back in place and hope for the best?

          I'm really at wit's end about how to fix this mess I've created.

          Tom M.

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          • #35
            Casey might scowl on what I am going to say next...

            I have used bookbinder's glue to seal the new rubberized cloth on bellows and feeders. It is easier to work with than hide glue, but a whole lot less authentic. And by the way, this glue comes off easily with a wet cloth.

            The cardboard walls are inserted to minimize the noise when pedalling. An un-cardboarded feeder creates a lot of frumbling noise (like crumpling up a thick canvass) and detracts from the clear sounds one expects from such a nice instrument. Cut them from thick 1/16" cardboard probably available from your local hardware store.

            Nico
            "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request...

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            • #36
              Not quite correct. These feeders are cardboard ribs, leather hinges and gussets, covered with blue paper (insect repellent); no rubber cloth. This is how they did feeders in them there days. They have the advantage of being far more efficient at moving air than rubber cloth.
              It's a nice craft project to rebuild them as original. I built a set a month ago.
              Casey

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              • #37
                Interesting. I should keep this in mind when I finally get to my little Holderness pressure model. The assembly on that one suspiciously looks like cardboard but I could be wrong as most of it is missing. I will follow Tom's progress with interest.

                Nico
                "Don't make war, make music!" Hammonds, Lowreys, Yamaha's, Gulbransens, Baldwin, Technics, Johannus. Reed organs. Details on request...

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                • #38
                  Nico: " I will follow Tom's progress with interest."

                  So will Tom.



                  Sounds like no one thinks I can re-build by gluing all the parts back in place. So, is the consensus that I should rebuild the two feeders, toss the bellows unit and board into the bin, and build new bellows from scratch?

                  Wow.

                  (Note I'm still not clear on what these actually are: feeder, exhauster, bellows, reservoir, foundation board, bellows board, etc. A photo or diagram would be helpful.)

                  Somewhere in the back of my mind, I have the guilty feeling that I could have rebuilt the entire air handling unit without removing it from the bellows board/foundation/ whatever.

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                  • #39
                    I'm trying to remove the wrecked top board (whatever you call the cross piece with the holes) from the back of the reservoir. The glue does seem to soften with hot water, and when wet smells like hide glue.

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                    I've been dripping hot water into that joint for about an hour, tapping a putty knife down a bit at a time, then dripping more water.

                    Should the joint have separated by now? Or do I need to slice down the entire joint with that putty knife to release the joint?

                    I've tried a few hearty whacks with a small hammer, but so far the joint is still tight.

                    Tom M.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by nutmegct View Post
                      Sounds like no one thinks I can re-build by gluing all the parts back in place. So, is the consensus that I should rebuild the two feeders, toss the bellows unit and board into the bin, and build new bellows from scratch?

                      Wow.

                      (Note I'm still not clear on what these actually are: feeder, exhauster, bellows, reservoir, foundation board, bellows board, etc. A photo or diagram would be helpful.)
                      Tom,

                      While I am not on either side of the question you asked, if you feel like you're over your head and need someone closer to you to advise, you may look at this thread: https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...l=1#post482707. I'm not sure of the work the person in question does, however, it might be worth a visit to see if, perhaps, there's some small chance he may have a good set of bellows available.

                      I hope this helps.

                      Michael
                      Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
                      • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
                      • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
                      • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

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                      • #41
                        I'm continuing "improvements" on the sub systems as I search for Divine Inspiration on the bellows/foundation disaster.

                        When I clean the interior wood pieces, I vacuum, then use a wet cloth, allow to dry, then sand any discolored or rough spots.

                        Should there be any kind of finish put on those surfaces? Or just leave them raw wood?

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                        Thanks.
                        Tom M.

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                        • #42
                          A local cabinet maker is considering whether to help me in the foundation/bellows project. He asks:

                          1. Why does the surface have two "levels"? In other words, why isn't the board flat? (see photo)

                          2. What is the purpose of that thick square with the hole, which is above one of the "regular" air holes? All the other air holes are at the level of the board.

                          3. Why is the board made of several types of wood joined together? Why not just make a new board out of a single piece of pine, or spruce, or ... ?

                          We can obviously make a new board, cut the expansion slots and the air holes, and add a raised border with leather seal. But the "two levels" of the board, and that single "block with a hole" - we don't know why they exist.


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                          • #43
                            Hi,
                            You can replace the thinner portion of the board with a single piece of plywood, and eliminate the need for expansion joints. Baltic birch ply is the best for this, not a big box store construction plywood. The perimeter strips of wood need to go back exactly as they are. The bored-out block of wood too. The holes need to be drilled with cabinetmaker's precision so the action sits in the same relation to the cabinet.

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                            • #44
                              Thanks Casey. When you say holes need to be drilled with precision, I assume you mean the screw holes, not the air holes.

                              On the bellows back, there appear to be recently-added hinges, on added wooden strips nailed into the board - see photo:

                              https://photos.app.goo.gl/YdrSRgGwicbv7bHC7

                              Were those two smaller bellows originally held by metal hinges? or by leather hinges?

                              (In other words, should I continue to use those poorly-added metal hinges, or return to leather?)

                              Thanks.
                              Tom M.

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                              • #45
                                When you take the leather hinge covering off, you will see how the hinge was constructed with cloth. I recommend canvas, but denim can work if you orient the direction of its stretch correctly.

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