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Thread: Allen 301B Organ Stops on Swell don't play--except Voix Celeste (certain notes)

  1. #51
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    3 members found this post helpful.
    It is not difficult to decide which type of Tone Card one is. Those for MOS organs have 16 pairs of "8" and "9" punches along the bottom of the card, with "9" punches beginning in column 6 and spaced every third column through column 51 and "8" punches beginning in column 7 and spaced every third column through column 52. Cards for ADC organs have a series of 33 "4" punches beginning in column 21 and ending in column 53. The ADC cards will have some punches in the "8" and "9" rows, but not in the pattern found in MOS cards, and the MOS cards may have occasional punches in the "4" row, but not the continuous series found in the ADC cards. There are other ways to differentiate between the 2 types of cards, but the above is the most obvious and easiest.

    David

  2. #52
    mp Mezzo-Piano samibe's Avatar
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    2 members found this post helpful.
    There's a possibility that the Spanish Trumpet is one of the newer red plastic MOS cards. If it is, it will probably have a "MOS" printed near the lower right corner.
    As for why it doesn't sound correct: It should be a full volume MOS reed (-62 to +63). If the light or sensors for row 6 and 5 (maybe even 4) are not working (or blocked), all of your cards will be too quiet and sound weird.
    Row 6 is a minus sign. If that is missing your won't be getting any negative waveform points. That would make most cards sound strange (there are some cards with only positive points that would sound fine if this was the only problem).
    Row 5 is the 32s place (binary). So any points that would occur between 32 and 63 would get put somewhere between 0 and 31. That would half the volume (approximately) of most tone cards. If this is the only blocked punch then any negative points would become extreme and all cards would sound strange.
    Make sure that the entire hole between the LEDs and a photoresistor is clean. (I had gunk right up against the photoresistor.)

    Edit: The Chime card should produce a pretty good chime sound (that is two octaves too high) with the percussion tab selected and the sustain knob set correctly.
    Last edited by samibe; 07-11-2018 at 08:22 PM.
    Sam

    Home: Yamaha P22 and a modified Allen ADC-4500 ... for now.
    Church: Allen MDS-5
    Files: Allen Tone Card (TC) Database, TC Info, TC Converter, Chorus/Mixture TC Generator, ADC TC Soundfont, and MOS TC Soundfont

  3. #53
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Card Reader Power Supply Installation-- Allen 301B (1977)

    David & Samibe,
    Thanks for the helpful info! Your explanations of identifying cards (e.g. Spanish Trumpet is red/thicker card, printed by Allen1985) of why cards sound approx. half their volume and/or strange could be very well the case.
    "As for why it doesn't sound correct: It should be a full volume MOS reed (-62 to +63). If the light or sensors for row 6 and 5 (maybe even 4) are not working (or blocked), all of your cards will be too quiet and sound weird.
    Row 6 is a minus sign. If that is missing your won't be getting any negative waveform points. That would make most cards sound strange..."

    As such, I decided to revert to having Mike M./TN (mailed CR back this morning) replace my new LED's with the "Standard" bulbs to see if I get better Card Reader results of both their normal volume (to be able to be used w/other organ stops), and truer/more realistic sounds indicated on cards, e.g. Chimes, Spanish Trumpet, Harpsichord, etc. I had noticed all 10 LED's were lit from back of organ, but definitely 2 or 3 bulbs around mid area didn't have same brightness as other bulbs when looking at them at same angle, e.g when I'd look higher up down into/at bulbs-- could could see those LED's were lit as well, but couldn't prove it when looking same lower horizontal angle from back.
    Thanks to all-- especially Mike M./TN, who has patiently walked me through this whole restoration organ process, including hours on the phone w/me & sending organ pics of various parts back/forth.

    James

    P.S. The Card Reader back to original standard bulbs will complete my organ "restoration" & be back to what it was 40+ years ago. Not the newest latest/greatest organ by far, but plays/sounds pretty darn good now as a practice organ in my home!!

    Allen #301B Organ_IMG_1061b.jpg

  4. #54
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    David (or John),
    Curious-- how did you get your pic to reflect on your profile posts? I have mine saved in my profile/reflected there, but the little Avatar under Pianississmo is just a square conglomeration of purple as seen on my posts.
    Thanks!

    James

    My pic as reflected in Organ Forum's Profile-- but doesn't show up on my posts:

    https://www.organforum.com/forums/cu...pic82784_3.gif

  5. #55
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    Your profile picture appears in your profile. Your avatar picture appears in your posts. Go to your Settings and choose Edit Avatar.

  6. #56
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Thanks Admin!!

  7. #57
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samibe View Post
    There's a possibility that the Spanish Trumpet is one of the newer red plastic MOS cards. If it is, it will probably have a "MOS" printed near the lower right corner.
    I've looked at the photos on the Allen Tone Card thread and found these photos may help:

    I hope that helps tell the difference between the cards by looking at the bottom 2 rows of punches (or lack thereof).

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  8. #58
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Thanks Michael! I’ll definitely check out these web links!
    James ��

  9. #59
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    Post regarding value of this and other Allen models moved to new thread here:
    https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...-7000-and-301B

  10. #60
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    All,
    FYI— after Michael M./TN replaced my incorrectly soldered in LED over sized bulbs installed by Batteries Plus Tech— just trying to make work what he was given (Harrison LED Kit), even with different/right size holes in bulb board w/proper size LED bulbs/properly installed by Mike, results of sounds of various cards wasn’t great. Cards weren’t realistic at all— volume was 50% of other organ’s stops, —flutes sounded like weak strings.
    Mike then offered to replace LED bulbs w/standard spec’d bulbs. When I received Card Reader back 2nd time with standard bulb installation, Mike suggested setting CR volts to 7 (mfr recommends anywhere 6-8 volts). Still wasn’t thrilled w/sounds—still weak volume, not realistic to tone indicated on cards(s), & had to insert tone cards very slowly/deliberately, 2-3 times before getting any sound.
    All this said... when I was ready to give up on ever having a CR that I’d have any interest in using, decided to make one LAST effort w/CR. So set CR volts at 1/2 increments, i.e. 6, 6.5, 7, 7.5, & 8 volts.
    It wasn’t until I set my CR volt reading to full 8 volts that —PRESTO!!! Noticeable difference discovered! Cards were read usually 1st time, and sound was 1) normal volume (could use other organ stops w/CR, & 2) more realistic sounds noted on tone card, e g flutes, harpsichord, Larigot. But am still disappointed in Spanish Trumpet, or other such big reeds. Sound more like Oboe. Certainly not a big solo reed! Oh well, at least can use some of my tone cards as intended!! ��

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