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Thread: Allen 301B Organ Stops on Swell don't play--except Voix Celeste (certain notes)

  1. #61
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James P View Post
    But am still disappointed in Spanish Trumpet, or other such big reeds. Sound more like Oboe. Certainly not a big solo reed! Oh well, at least can use some of my tone cards as intended!!
    James,

    It sounds like your equalization is a bit off. When I had the same issue, I found the Alterable Voice cards needed to be re-adjusted. However, unless you know how to do it, it might be better to leave it to someone who knows. However, if you're comfortable with it, I found the best way is to move all 3 controls to the center position (half way between the extremes), and then adjust the tone controls from there.

    The pots are, from top to bottom, Bass, Treble, Mid-Range, and Gain. I've found the Spanish Trumpet not to live up to everyone's hype. Instead, the Trumpet A 8' is my preferred Trumpet card, followed closely by the English Tuba 8'.

    Hope that helps.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  2. #62
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Thanks Michael! Appreciate the info—including Spanish Trumpet not all I’d hoped for.
    As for adjusting CR pots to center & then adjust from there, I don’t even know where these pots are located. Not on Power Supply or CR—that I’d noticed.
    Thanks again to all!!
    James

  3. #63
    f Forte Larrytow's Avatar
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    James,

    I think that Michael may be mixing up what series of organs have, and do not have those voicing controls. To my knowledge, the MOS organs Do Not have any voicing controls for the Alterables. However, the ADC organs Do indeed have the ones he mentioned.

    Michael owns LOTS of ADC organs, so it is understandable.

    I may be wrong on this, but I have never seen, or heard mention of, separate voicing controls on a MOS series Alterable system.
    Regards, Larry

    At Home : Yamaha Electones : EX-42 ( X 3 ! ), E-5AR ( X 2, 1 parts, 1 not ), D80 ( parts ), FX-1, FX-20, HS-7T ( parts ), EL-25 ( X 2, 1 chopped, 1 not ). Allen organs : T12-A, T-12B, ADC-6000D. Baldwin 626. Hammond Concorde. Lowrey CH32-1. A bunch of Synthesizers and Keyboards. At Churches I play for : Allen Q325 ( with VISTA ), Hammond A105, Baldwin 720T, Several small and medium size pipe organs of many sorts and builders.

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    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Thanks Larry,
    You must be correct-- because likewise there are no pots to adjust on CR Power Supply (other than volts 6-8 for bulb brightness) & certainly not on the CR itself. Oh well, no problem. At least I do having a working CR now-- with all standard 10 bulbs shining per factory specs at 8 volts on CR Power Supply. It's not bad-- but certainly not what I'd hoped it would/could be; but it is a 1977 Allen Digital! As said previously, biggest disappointment in CR's cards are Spanish Trumpet (certainly not a BIG fanfare trumpet), & the Chimes (Tubular, Flemish, etc)-- poor imitations of either sounds!!

    James
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  5. #65
    Moderator jbird604's Avatar
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    The percussions were always poor on MOS card readers, especially chimes and carillons. David or somebody may be able to explain the technical reasons for this. It seems MOS couldn't accurately model the true waveforms of chimes with their odd set of harmonics.

    As to the Spanish Trumpet, there is of course a mathematical limit to the loudness of any MOS stop, so the card reader may not be able to create a Spanish Trumpet that is as loud as you expect. I always found it helpful to install the Spanish Trumpet into BOTH alterables of the swell division and add the trompette stop on the regular tab rail along with the two alterables. If that still isn't loud enough, try adding other 8' stops as well to build volume. All this together will give you a more believable Big Reed!
    John
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    Church: Allen MDS-45 with Allen MIDI-DIVISION-II expander
    Home: Allen Renaissance R-230 with expanded four-channel audio and MIDI-DIVISION-II
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    Half of an incredible two-man organ service team -- servicing all the major digitals in Arkansas churches
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  6. #66
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    Thanks John! Will keep that in mind & try Spanish Trumpet as suggested!

    James

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by James P View Post
    TIt's not bad-- but certainly not what I'd hoped it would/could be; but it is a 1977 Allen Digital! As said previously, biggest disappointment in CR's cards are Spanish Trumpet (certainly not a BIG fanfare trumpet), & the Chimes (Tubular, Flemish, etc)-- poor imitations of either sounds!!
    What you're hearing, of course, are the limits of MOS era technology. These are waveform based instruments rather than what we would consider today sample based instruments.

    Complex waveforms, such as reeds, suffer due to the 7 bit sample resolution and limited number of sample points which limit harmonic development. Allen did have a Reed Extender card which was to be used in conjunction with other cards to extend and increase the complexity of upper harmonics. Another obstacle to realistic reeds, especially big solo reeds, is the lack of a realistic attack.

    Chimes are also very complex harmonically and are limited in the same way reeds are. In addition, that harmonic make-up changes as the note decays, something that the fixed waveform MOS technology does not do.

    The most realistic MOS chime card is Tubular Bells. You must use it in conjunction with the Sustain tab with a long sustain, play it an octave lower than written, and play the notes staccato. Your best result will be using it to play a single note, like a bell strike, rather than melodies. The problem here is lack of polyphony, the need for which increases when using sustain. If you've got too many sustained notes going at once, you'll begin to hear some of them being truncated when the polyphony threshold is reached.

  8. #68
    fff Fortississimo davidecasteel's Avatar
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    We had a discussion of Allen chimes in another thread, if you're interested: https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...light=hum+tone.

    David

  9. #69
    Moderator myorgan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James P View Post
    As for adjusting CR pots to center & then adjust from there, I don’t even know where these pots are located. Not on Power Supply or CR—that I’d noticed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larrytow View Post
    I think that Michael may be mixing up what series of organs have, and do not have those voicing controls. To my knowledge, the MOS organs Do Not have any voicing controls for the Alterables. However, the ADC organs Do indeed have the ones he mentioned.
    I apologize, Larry is absolutely correct. For some strange reason, I got mixed up, didn't look at the thread title, and gave advice based on the ADC organs vs. MOS organ you have. Sorry!

    However, the comments about the cards are valid, though, as they didn't improve much from the MOS to ADC era of construction. In the MIDI ensemble is where Allen made its greatest improvements.

    Apologies again.

    Michael
    Way too many organs to list, but I do have 5 Allens:
    • MOS-2 Model 505-B / ADC-4300-DK / ADC-5400 / ADC-6000 (Symphony) / ADC-8000DKC
    • Lowrey Heritage (DSO-1)
    • 9 Pump Organs, 1 Pipe Organ & 4 Pianos

  10. #70
    pp Pianissimo James P's Avatar
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    All,
    If haven’t heard, after a 6 month project repairing/refurbishing my Allen 301B to 100% functionality, I sold it to my brother’s church here locally for my cost—not including the MANY hours of TLC I spent on it to make it “like new” condition. Felt it was what the Lord wanted me to do—for real!!
    My 301B replaced there old “wheezing/squeezing Hammond” (purchased new 1962). There organist, Pastor, Elders were/are excited to get it too. I installed it just Monday night after delivering it Sunday afternoon. This coming Sunday will be it’s FIRST Sunday to be used.
    So...now I bit the bullet & purchased Roger Colby’s/TN way too BIG/too MUCH organ for my average size Living Room. OUCH—$7,000 ouch w/freight delivery of organ 1,100 miles to Bryan, TX.
    Organ enthusiasts PLEASE check it out on Ebay or here on Forum’s Classified Ads. Need to sell it FAST to keep peace with my wife! It’s like an ELEPHANT in our Living Room (see pics on ads).
    Also, the old Hammod C-3 model light wood color is up for sale by the church. Let me know if interested in either Organ.
    Appreciate you all!!

    James

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