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Thread: Leslie 130 - No Slow Speed

  1. #1
    pp Pianissimo theseacowexists's Avatar
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    Leslie 130 - No Slow Speed

    During a rehearsal tonight, the horns that I added to my Leslie 130 kept losing their slow speed. They'd work for a few minutes, then slow to a halt. I figured that this might be down to an adjustment needing to be made to where the slow motor touches the O-ring, so I tried adjusting it. While I was adjusting it, I noticed that the slow motor just plain wasn't turning when switching to slow - and now the lower rotor wasn't getting any slow speed either!

    I decided to check the motor socket for voltage. I was able to read 117V on the fast motor pin before accidentally touching the multimeter probe to the other fast motor pin and blowing the Leslie's 5A fuse. So now I will have to wait until I get a new fuse tomorrow before testing again. This time I will stick the probe into the molex socket and not probe the pins on the back of the board! Lesson learned.

    When I get the fuse replaced, what should I be looking for that would cause the slow motors to not get any power? The Leslie is controlled by a Dr. Fishsticks 11-pin controller. Most times (and this was even before adding the top motors) the Leslie would never turn on by switching directly to chorale from stop - it had to be quickly switched to tremolo and then to chorale, or just switched directly to tremolo. This leads me to believe that maybe the problem isn't with the Leslie, and that the Fishsticks may be faulty and just finally quit? The Fishsticks would do this no matter what switch was being used on it.

    In case you're wondering, the upper motors are hooked up by being having the wires spliced into the respective wires for the lower motors.
    Hammond M-3, Hammond M-101, Hammond T-211, Hohner Cembalet N, Hohner Favor Combo, Hohner Pianet L, Hohner Pianet T, Hohner Symphonic 30N, Leslie 130, Nord Electro 3, and an entire village of guitars and harmonicas.

  2. #2
    mp Mezzo-Piano Jyvoipabo's Avatar
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    Hello,

    Have a look at the schematics.
    http://www.captain-foldback.com/Lesl...matics/130.jpg
    There is an interesting truth table of the voltage in the control circuit showing the 3 possibles states : OFF/SLOW/FAST
    But, do not worry about transistors right now.They only serve a short time during BRAKE. (The 4th state)

    Abstracting this transistors, the control circuit becomes very simple.
    Simply 2 relays that control the triacs with a few diodes added.

    You must check the voltage across the relay or more easy accross diodes D11 and D15 when doing OFF/SLOW/FAST
    Then you will know where the problem comes from : before or after the relays.

    JP

  3. #3
    pp Pianissimo theseacowexists's Avatar
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    I had a thought that I wanted to try before checking the amp. Since I already have the preamp bypassed (speakers are powered by my external amp of choice via a 1/4" cable), I had been thinking of removing the rest of the electronics from the cabinet and building a separate circuit for powering/switching the motors. To that end I decided to wire up the motors as described in post number 2 here: https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...eslie-Question

    I used a mains-rated DPDT on-off-on switch and it works...sort of. In one 'on' position, the lower fast and the upper slow turn on, and visa-versa in the other 'on' position. All motors are off in the 'off' position. A picture of the diagram I drew up for it is attached. What could I have done to have it behave in this fashion? Maybe I just need to forget about the 'off' position and get a DPDT on-on switch instead?

    IMG_0262.jpg
    Hammond M-3, Hammond M-101, Hammond T-211, Hohner Cembalet N, Hohner Favor Combo, Hohner Pianet L, Hohner Pianet T, Hohner Symphonic 30N, Leslie 130, Nord Electro 3, and an entire village of guitars and harmonicas.

  4. #4
    fff Fortississimo enor's Avatar
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    You've mixed up the wires. Interchange the connections to 1 and 3 (or 4 and 6).
    Current organs: AV, BC, A-100
    Current Leslies: 22H, 142, 147, 760
    Organs in the past: L-100 (several), M-100 (x2), T-100, E-100, CV

  5. #5
    pp Pianissimo theseacowexists's Avatar
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    I took a dinner break and came back and saw just that!
    Hammond M-3, Hammond M-101, Hammond T-211, Hohner Cembalet N, Hohner Favor Combo, Hohner Pianet L, Hohner Pianet T, Hohner Symphonic 30N, Leslie 130, Nord Electro 3, and an entire village of guitars and harmonicas.

  6. #6
    pp Pianissimo theseacowexists's Avatar
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    So the switch got me through the couple gigs I needed to get through. I needed to add some caps to suppress the POP when switching, but that was no big deal.

    The 130 is now totally passive, which was my goal anyway. No remaining Leslie amp guts, Fishsticks box or Leslie cable, just plug the speakers into any amplifier I choose. The thing I don't like is this switch. Each of my organs have been rigged up with a Telecaster switch for slow-off-fast switching that plugged into the Fishsticks box via a 1/4" TRS cable. I'd like to retain those switch and the TRS jack/cable setups, but I obviously shouldn't be running mains voltage through that switch - or can I? The safest solution would be to build something using relays, but I have to admit that's something I've never worked with before. Has anyone ever designed what I'm describing, or at least something close to it?
    Hammond M-3, Hammond M-101, Hammond T-211, Hohner Cembalet N, Hohner Favor Combo, Hohner Pianet L, Hohner Pianet T, Hohner Symphonic 30N, Leslie 130, Nord Electro 3, and an entire village of guitars and harmonicas.

  7. #7
    pp Pianissimo alpine's Avatar
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    I got rid of those nasty line voltages running up an down the Leslie cables some years ago. The current demands of Leslie motors are very low and the low cost Fotek SSRs from Taiwan work very well and will switch the AC side with a few milliamps on the DC side from 3volts plus.
    There is a trade in what are described as 'counterfeit' Foteks, which simply means that the labels for lower ac current ones have been changed to higher current labelling for extra profit But since we are talking of a few hundred mA AC at worst for the motors, this is not really important in this application, though I can see it could cause problems for individuals using these for thermostatic control of cannabis farm heaters...

    I am using a cheap 12vdc power module intended for downlighters inside my A100 to power the switching.
    Last edited by alpine; 09-15-2018 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #8
    mp Mezzo-Piano Jyvoipabo's Avatar
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    Hello,

    It's not a bad thing to have removed the amp.
    But you have to check the capacitors of the crossover.
    Their value may have changed.

    Do not throw away this amp and its power supply immediately.
    You may have to come back to restore the braking function and/or a Solid state relay Solution as suggered by Alpine.

    JP

  9. #9
    pp Pianissimo theseacowexists's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jyvoipabo View Post
    Hello,

    It's not a bad thing to have removed the amp.
    But you have to check the capacitors of the crossover.
    Their value may have changed.

    Do not throw away this amp and its power supply immediately.
    You may have to come back to restore the braking function and/or a Solid state relay Solution as suggered by Alpine.

    JP
    I already installed a crossover for the speakers, so the only part of the amp that I was relying on was the motor control section.

    The very last post in this thread seems to have what I want:

    https://www.organforum.com/forums/sh...lled-SSR/page2

    I just need to figure out how to wire that up - that's where I'm stuck now.
    Hammond M-3, Hammond M-101, Hammond T-211, Hohner Cembalet N, Hohner Favor Combo, Hohner Pianet L, Hohner Pianet T, Hohner Symphonic 30N, Leslie 130, Nord Electro 3, and an entire village of guitars and harmonicas.

  10. #10
    mp Mezzo-Piano Jyvoipabo's Avatar
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    You must not change your one-eyed horse by a blind.
    (The 74F06 is a fast circuit. It need a 5V supply and a PCB for the wiring. )

    But, the thing that really makes problems in the original circuit is the isolator.
    Leslie_isolator.jpg
    It is difficult to troubleshoot.
    The parts are hard to find. Simply replace it with a small Solid state relay having a control voltage in the range 3-32Vdc and load 3A minimum 140VAC.
    Example : https://www.futurlec.com/RelSS.shtml
    May be SSR10A or =

    This can solve problem.
    But it is not certain. As long as the why of the original problem was not found.

    JP
    Last edited by Jyvoipabo; 09-17-2018 at 09:50 AM.

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