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Thread: Leslie 2101 mk1: what does the STA-MUTE switch position do?

  1. #1
    ppp Pianississmo chuggid's Avatar
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    Question Leslie 2101 mk1: what does the STA-MUTE switch position do?

    I have a Leslie 2101 mk1.

    I am looking at the switch that, on its rightmost position, is labeled Bass & Sta Mute.

    My understanding is that this is supposed to mute all the non-spinning speakers in the box.

    Does it in fact mute only those channels headed to the line outs?

    I gig with this box through a PA speaker for the lows and certainly don't need its built-in stationary speakers to be doing much.

    Thanks,
    Best,
    Laird

  2. #2
    ppp Pianississmo neB3's Avatar
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    Are you connecting with an 11 pin cable from your keyboard/tonewheel clone etc? If so, those stationary signals will not be directed to the Rotary. If you set the switch to Bass & Sta Mute, you'll lose much of the low end. Definitely not good for a full sound. For sure you'll want both the Rotary L/Mono and the Stationary/Rotary Bass"Line Outs" to be active...plugged into the PA. The signal is crossed over at 125Hz between the two with the 125Hz and below coming out of the Stationary/Rotary Bass. Otherwise you'll lose the low end of your Hammond/Tonewheel sound. The Channel Switch should be in the "NORMAL" position.
    Also, presume you're micing the upper Rotor to the PA?
    Go to www.hammondorganco.com click on Support, Downloads to the 2101. Page 10 #16 explains the Channel Switch.

  3. #3
    ppp Pianississmo chuggid's Avatar
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    Hey; thanks for your reply!

    I have connected via an 11 pin before from my Nord C1, but that cable is very iffy so lately I've been running a line into the Rotary Line In jack.

    I'm sadly quite familiar with the 2101 manual but familiar doesn't necessarily mean I understand it, I guess.

    Page 10, #16 says:

    d.16 - CHANNEL SWITCH - Use this switch to control the audio for different Leslie connections. NORMAL - This is the preferred position for most applications. STA MONO - Use this position to merge the Stationary Left and Right channels. BASS & STA MUTE - Silences the Low Rotor and Stationary channels. This position may be desirable if the 2121 Bass unit is used to avoid ovedriving [sic] the Stationary speakers in the Horn-Unit
    (That last sentence is what made me think that the switch is supposed to be muting the onboard non-spinning speakers, since it explicitly mentions overdriving the physical speakers in the box.)

    There are many things I'm not clear on here:

    1. Does this switch affect what is coming out of the actual physical non-spinning speakers in the Leslie 2101? On my unit, there is no difference I can hear in audio quality one way or another when it is not connected to any PA. So that would suggest no, but my particular unit has had some work done on it in the past and so I'm trying to figure out whether the switch is even functional right now.
    2. Are the Stationary channels different from the low rotor channel? In a Leslie 122 of course there are exactly two speakers: the spinning horn, and the 15" driver firing into the spinning drum. There's no stationary channel. What is that trying to model?
    3. If I set the switch to STA MONO, and the Stationary Left and Right channels are merged (presumably summed to mono), is that a setting I might use in the (relatively standard) case of running into a mono PA?
    4. Why would I leave this switch on Normal if I have a PA handling the bottom end? Note that the quoted passage doesn't actually really say what this does. Presumably it routes the L/R outputs of the stationary and low rotor channels to their respective output jacks without summing or muting. Presumably also it doesn't do anything to the internal speakers and just lets them "fire" however they normally do.

    You see what I mean?

    So first and foremost I'm trying to see if that switch is working properly and how to tell.

    Then the manual also says on page 9:

    s.4 - LINE OUT:STATIONARY & BASS (L/MONO, R) Jacks - These allow both the STATIONARY and the LOW ROTARY channels to be connected to an external amplifier. To connect the STATIONARY UNIT #2121, connect theL/MONO OUT to INPUT 2. ROTARY (L/MONO, R) - This allows the LOW ROTARY channel to be connected to an external amplifier. To connect the STATIONARY UNIT #2121, connect the L/MONO OUT to INPUT 3
    So if the STATIONARY & BASS (L/MONO) jack sums the STATIONARY and LOW ROTARY channels, then why would I also want to run a line out of the ROTARY (L/MONO) jack?

    Thanks again!
    Last edited by chuggid; 10-10-2018 at 07:11 AM.

  4. #4
    ppp Pianississmo neB3's Avatar
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    Your STA MUTE Switch

    Well, I spoke to soon regarding the Bass & Sta Mute. It was late and that glass of wine was tasting pretty good...heehee
    Your 1st ? That setting cuts only the small 5" speakers in the top unit for both the Stationary and Rotary low end signal. As mentioned in the manual, they could be overdriven and blown. Out of curiosity, I went down to my studio today and checked that switch out. I still run it on Normal. But since I rarely use this 2101/2121 Leslie, haven't been concerned with where the switch is set. In your case, I'd set it on the Bass & Stationary Mute. Low end should be coming out of the PA. Also, route the 2101 Line Outs into a powered monitor by you to hear what's working. Another question, how are you hearing the full sound of the Leslie on stage? Do you have IEMs or a floor wedge with those low rotor signals coming back at you. I'm presuming that you do not have the Leslie 2121 speaker.
    2nd ? The reason for the Stationary channels is where a keyboard with an 11 pin has multi-voices along with the Hammond Tonewheel voicing. The voices that shouldn't be routed through the rotary go to separate pins. If you plug into the Rotary channel and set a keyboard voicing to a piano or whatever, it will come out through the rotary Horn and Low Rotor and sound like a piano through a Leslie.
    3rd ? No, with your Nord plugged into the Rotary input, there is no Stationary signal. If you use your 11 pin, 125Hz and below I believe is a stationary signal in the 2101. That low end even on an actual Leslie's rotating doppler effect is not distinguishable. Above 125Hz to the crossover at 800Hz though, that can be heard in the low rotor. If the sound company's PA is mono, whether you send him a stereo signal or not, his mixer will sum to mono. If the switch was set to STA MONO when the PA is mono, that'd be fine also.
    4th ? Normal runs the stereo signal to the upper 2101 5" speakers. If a person is using only the upper 2101 say in his living room, you should adjust those tiny hidden screws to adjust the volume ratio of the rotating horn to those 5" speakers. Otherwise for stage/live, switch to Bass & Sta Mute and adjust those little screws to run more bass (or less) to the Line Outs and balance that with the upper Horn. And, you'll have to use both the Line Outs - STATIONARY & ROT BASS L/MONO and ROTARY L/MONO. If the PA is in stereo, take both Right channels to the mixing board also. Go to page 2 of the Manual and review the signal direction in the Schematic. That explains a lot where the 125Hz goes to what Line Out. Hope this helps!

  5. #5
    ppp Pianississmo chuggid's Avatar
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    Thanks; this is very helpful. This is first of all confirming to me that my three-position switch isn't actually doing anything but should be doing something. The onboard drivers all sound, all the time, no matter what position the switch is in. Looks like that's a place to start.

    The other thing I've noticed is that the volume trims for the line outs have no effect. All line out volume levels seem to be driven off the rotary volume knob. I'm thinking that the original (Hammond/Suzuki official!) service this thing had was botched, or the guy just took a shortcut and bypassed some of these things. Weird.

  6. #6
    ppp Pianississmo neB3's Avatar
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    The 2101 can be confusing. I don't think you have a faulty switch or that a tech bypassed something. The three position switch does allow all those drivers to be active all the time regardless of the setting.
    That little trim pot/screw for the Rotary Bass adjust only the signal from 125Hz and below which is a Stationary signal in this Leslie model. The idea was to control the very low end going to those little speakers in the 2101. The instructions in the manual do indicate different trim pot settings depending on using just the upper versus plugging into a lower stationary speaker or PA etc. Same goes for the Horn Level trim pot. The BASS & STA MUTE select would only take out the 125Hz signal and below. 125Hz and above will still sound out of those little speakers plus the Horn.
    So yes, the Rotary volume knob will affect the overall sound for the rotary signal. But the trim pots give you additional adjustments to balance depending on what and where you're performing with the Speaker.
    When a person really looks at the 2101 System, it's an amazing speaker for combining both keyboard/synths voicing and the Hammond Tonewheel/Leslie in one unit.
    I'm not a tech. Although, I am a dealer for Hammond/Suzuki Pro Line Products and I have several Vintage Hammonds and Leslies. Plus, I actively perform with a couple of Classic Rock bands weekly using a '67 Hammond B3 routed either through a Leslie 122 or when we need a quiet stage because of using IEMs. I route the B3 through a Neo Ventilator pedal or Hammond Suzuki Leslie Cream pedal. Both do an amazing job of simulating a Leslie.

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    ppp Pianississmo chuggid's Avatar
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    OK, so the 5" drivers will always have some sound coming out of them, no matter what. Got it.

    Then there are little plastic screws which adjust relative levels; I understand what those do. Got that too. (They no longer turn on my model for some reason; the plastic Philips head looks like perhaps it was stripped.)

    Next, there are line out knobs. One is labeled simply STATIONARY and the other is labeled ROTARY. To my ears the STATIONARY line out volume knob doesn't seem to do anything; turning the ROTARY knob obviously makes the spinning horn louder, but also increases the level from either of the STATIONARY & ROT. BASS or ROTARY line out jacks. That too surprised me.

    Last question: if I can only run one 1/4" cable out of the Leslie 2101 and into the PA, which line out jack should I plug it into?

  8. #8
    ppp Pianississmo neB3's Avatar
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    Answers on the Leslie 2101

    Regarding those little trim pots with Phillips screw heads, darn, if stripped...that's not good. If you can get in the opening with something (needle nose pliers ???) and clasp on the outside to turn. ??? The screw head has an extended flange that is flat cut from the round. That designates it's position. The Manual shows and describes the suggested placement for using just the upper cab or with an outside lower monitor powered speaker or feed to the PA.
    With the Line Out knobs - Stationary & Rotary. As mentioned in my reply above, when plugged into the Rotary input, there is no Stationary signal. The Stationary knobs have nothing to adjust since there is no signal. Only way to receive a Stationary signal would be through the 11 pin plug and a Keyboard that sends voicings intended to be Stationary. Your Nord is an organ/tonewheel only I believe...either way, 11 pin socket or plugged into the Rotary of the 2101, you'll have that Hammond/Tonewheel signal going only to the Horn and Lower Rotor. One exception, the 125Hz and below (review Schematic on page 2) goes directly to the "Rot Bass Lev" trim pot to the line amp of the Stationary & Rot Bass Line Outs. That is a stationary signal but it's controlled by the Rotary knob. That's why you don't hear any difference when adjusting the Stationary knobs. So you'll need a cable/cables out of the Stationary & Rot Bass Line Out along with the Rotary Line Out section to the PA. And yes, the main Rotary knob controls all.
    Single Cable idea...you'll have to have at least three channels in the PA mixer out front. One for the microphone on the upper horn and one each for the L/Mono of the Stationary & Rot Bass and L/Mono of the Rotary Line Out. If Stereo, two more cables for the Right sides of both Line Outs. Of course two more channels in the PA Mixer out front for a total of five channels.
    Other option is to sub mix all those. Get yourself a small mixer and route the microphone and audio cables from the Leslie 2101 into it. Then designate all those inputs to one Aux Send where just a single cable goes to the PA Front of House Mixer. Only thing you will have to do is make sure the upper and lower rotors are PFL and balanced to give the sound man a full compliment of your Nord.

    Should answer your questions...Have Fun!

  9. #9
    ppp Pianississmo chuggid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by neB3 View Post
    Regarding those little trim pots with Phillips screw heads, darn, if stripped...that's not good. If you can get in the opening with something (needle nose pliers ???) and clasp on the outside to turn. ??? The screw head has an extended flange that is flat cut from the round. That designates it's position. The Manual shows and describes the suggested placement for using just the upper cab or with an outside lower monitor powered speaker or feed to the PA.
    Yep; I would love to be able to adjust this! My tiny Philips screwdriver just spins freely in the plastic. The plastic trim pots are also ever so slightly offset from the stupid little opening so it's just…very inconvenient. I think I have to remove all the circuit boards and adjust them once and for all, put the whole thing back together again, and never look at it again.

    With the Line Out knobs - Stationary & Rotary. As mentioned in my reply above, when plugged into the Rotary input, there is no Stationary signal. The Stationary knobs have nothing to adjust since there is no signal.
    Ah, it's beginning to dawn on me. Got it.

    Only way to receive a Stationary signal would be through the 11 pin plug and a Keyboard that sends voicings intended to be Stationary. Your Nord is an organ/tonewheel only I believe...either way, 11 pin socket or plugged into the Rotary of the 2101, you'll have that Hammond/Tonewheel signal going only to the Horn and Lower Rotor. One exception, the 125Hz and below (review Schematic on page 2) goes directly to the "Rot Bass Lev" trim pot to the line amp of the Stationary & Rot Bass Line Outs. That is a stationary signal but it's controlled by the Rotary knob. That's why you don't hear any difference when adjusting the Stationary knobs. So you'll need a cable/cables out of the Stationary & Rot Bass Line Out along with the Rotary Line Out section to the PA. And yes, the main Rotary knob controls all.
    OK, so the upshot is: run cables out of all line out jacks even if it seems like they may not be doing anything and drive the whole pinball machine from the rotary knob. Got it.

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