Baroque Vs. Modern Pedalboard

[andyg]

My organ tutors were adamant that I should get used to as many different pedalboards as possible. 13 note spinets, 25 note Hammonds and other consoles, 32 note AGO church and cinema organs and the wonderful variety of boards found in local churches. So I did what they said and before too long I found that I was able to swap between them with very little conversion time - 5 to 10 minutes max, no more, usually less.

That advice was given 40+ years ago and though most of my playing these days is on home organs, back to the 13 and 20 note spinets and the 25 note flat-radiating type, I'm delighted to find that when I am called upon to play on something different, that almost instant conversion ability is still there - if you practise it enough it must become built in.

[regeron]

Pedalboards can be rated on more than just their shape, too.
Shape - I know of flat-parallel, concave-parallel and concave-radiating. Does anyone know if flat-radiating exists?
Degree of concave - as I mentioned elsewhere, Casavant has a different curve than AGO.
Weight - some pedals require you to stand on them to go down; others seem to go down if you just think about the note.
Depth - some pedals are easy enough to play, but you have to press them down so far, then let them release just as far, that it still feels clumsy.
Number - yes, we have the 1-octave (13-note) spinets, the 2-octaves (25 notes), and the 30- (CC-F) / 32- (CC-G) note pedalboards. I wouldn't be surprised if some European regions had other note-range traditions.
Pedal length
Pedal width and spacing
How much curve (if any) on the edge of the sharps nearest the player

Any other ways we can categorize our pedalboards?

[myorgan]

Does anyone know if flat-radiating exists?

Regeron,

Yes, it does. I forget where I ran into it, but I've played a flat, radiating pedalboard only once. I'm sure it'll come to me in the middle of the night!

Good categorization of all the pedal considerations, though.

Michael

[ArthurCambronne]

Pedalboards can be rated on more than just their shape, too.
Shape - I know of flat-parallel, concave-parallel and concave-radiating. Does anyone know if flat-radiating exists?
Degree of concave - as I mentioned elsewhere, Casavant has a different curve than AGO.
Weight - some pedals require you to stand on them to go down; others seem to go down if you just think about the note.
Depth - some pedals are easy enough to play, but you have to press them down so far, then let them release just as far, that it still feels clumsy.
Number - yes, we have the 1-octave (13-note) spinets, the 2-octaves (25 notes), and the 30- (CC-F) / 32- (CC-G) note pedalboards. I wouldn't be surprised if some European regions had other note-range traditions.
Pedal length
Pedal width and spacing
How much curve (if any) on the edge of the sharps nearest the player

Any other ways we can categorize our pedalboards?

My head just exploded.

Flat radiating are quite common on home organs. Isn't that what many of the Hammond consoles have? Our church has an old WurliTzer with a flat-radiating board.

'My' Hook (not mine, but the one I play) has 27 notes (CC-D, flat-straight). I think it is a European (English) styled instrument.

[SBurton]

Both my Thomas and Gulbransen have 25 note flat, radiating pedals.

[regeron]

Thank you! I suspected that there might be flat-radiating, but wasn't sure where the common examples would be.

[SubBase]

regeron: "I am told that Bach had no difficulty playing his music on a flat, non-radiating pedalboard."



I'm sorry if my post was misunderstood. I hadn't claimed to speak with anyone who knew Bach, but I have spoken to people who have read documents relating to him and his abilities. It is to these that I was referring. For example, the comment that "Bach could play passages with his feet, which other people had difficulty playing with their fingers." I'm sorry again, for not being able to provide the reference for this story or any others like it. Perhaps another Organ Forum contributor can help out here.

Bach aside, all you have to do is look at the pedal parts in the organ music of the North German Baroque to find incredible, virtuosic writing. Then imagine all the improvisations that never made it to paper. And it was all played on a flat, non-radiating pedalboard.

For most modern organists, the problem is not so much that it is harder somehow, just that it is unfamiliar. And unfortunately, most of us have no access to anything other than AGO standard pedalboards, so when we DO get to play something else, it is seldom and infrequent, so it also remains relatively unfamiliar which, as stated above, leads us to believe that it is harder.

It sounds like you're in for a treat when you travel to Europe. I hope that there are opportunities for you to try a variety of different historical instruments. It's always a learning experience to do that. And you will come away with so many good memories.

Regarding "standards" - standardization is relatively modern. Again, others will be able to help out here. Many of us live in enough isolation to think that we are operating by "the standard," but in reality, there are so many regional and national differences in so much of life. As an example, just consider a concept like "standard law," and the USA. You will have federal laws, for sure, but then there are state, municipal, and institutional laws that can differ from one another, sometimes quite dramatically.

Here in Canada, on the prairies, there is a city called Lloydminster, which sits on the border between the two provinces of Alberta and Saskatchewan. I'm not sure of the current situation, but it used to be that the two provinces had two different legal drinking ages, such that what was legal on one side of a street that ran down the border was illegal on the other side of the same street. Here in Canada, as well, before we switched to the metric system of measurements, we were on the British system, but although we had gallons, just like the USA did, they were different gallons! Today in Canada, there is still a carryover, such that we use a combination of both systems.

These are just some examples of current areas where "standardization" is a nice thought, but not quite a complete reality.

I wasn't aware that Bach was ever provided with an AGO pedalboard for side-by-side comparison.
BTW, my avatar pic organ; 30 note, flat and straight the way god via JSB intended!!
Casey

[regeron]

I'm not aware that Bach ever had the comparison option either. :) At least according to 'sources.'

Casey, did free reeds exist in Bach's day, at least in any form that resembles the reeds in your fine instruments? There were regals (small organs with a single reed stop) but I don't think they used free reeds... hmmm

[SBurton]

I'm not aware that Bach ever had the comparison option either. :) At least according to 'sources.'

Casey, did free reeds exist in Bach's day, at least in any form that resembles the reeds in your fine instruments? There were regals (small organs with a single reed stop) but I don't think they used free reeds... hmmm

The harmonica first appeared in Vienna, where harmonicas with chambers were sold before 1824

Johann Sebastian Bach (31 March 1685 – 28 July 1750)

Yes, Bach and free-reed instruments co-existed.
Whether he knew about them or thought anything of them is another question.

[regeron]

Bach died in 1750; harmonicas with chambers were sold before 1824. There are still 74 years between Bach and 1824.

Wikipedia lists free reed instruments in ancient Asia, but I'm not sure if they would have been known to any Germans.

[SBurton]

OOPS! :embarrassed:

[ArthurCambronne]

I am intrigued by the notion of a concave NON-radiating pedalboard. I have heard they exist, but they must be exceedingly rare in the states. Does anyone play on one, and are they more common in any manufacturers, regions, or eras?

[andyg]

Last wedding I played for was on an organ with a 30 note straight concave pedalboard. Electronic, not particularly pipe like. It's since died, not surprising given its age and the fact that it was Italian from the 1970s. There was no option for a 32 note RCO board on that model.

And the wedding before that was on a small 6 rank single manual, again 30 pedals, concave, all straight, and very uncomfortable, not a hint of 'standard' dimensions. That one did take a while to get used to the first time.

So they certainly exist over here.

[myorgan]

Last wedding I played for was on an organ with a 30 note straight concave pedalboard. Electronic, not particularly pipe like. It's since died, not surprising given its age and the fact that it was Italian from the 1970s. There was no option for a 32 note RCO board on that model.

And the wedding before that was on a small 6 rank single manual, again 30 pedals, concave, all straight, and very uncomfortable, not a hint of 'standard' dimensions. That one did take a while to get used to the first time.

Andy,

They must be more common on your side of the pond. I've yet to run into one here.

Good question, Arthur. My guess is that organs of your vintage would be more likely to have concave, but straight pedalboards. One from 1860 I played had flat, straight, and offset by one note (either right or left) from the AGO standard. However, another from 1906 by the same maker had concave & radiating pedalboard. Both were trackers.

Michael

[twnelson]

The current Roland C-330/380 models have 30 note parallel concave pedalboards. The console design originally targeted the European market, but they've apparently sold quite a few in the US. Their Rodgers counterparts are standard AGO.

--- Tom