What is the Best Digital Organ for the Home?

[ButterFingers]

Hello everyone,

Does anyone out there know which Digital Classical Organ is the best for the home. I have a choice of Roland C330, Johannus 170, Makin etc, and any other. I know it is personal choice, but maybe someone has some experience with them. I am looking for functionality as well as sound samples. I know it is personal choice, my friend really loves Viscount and does not like Johannus, whereas I do not like the Viscount because they sound dull electronic with an artificial decay. Maybe someone has had a couple of them or services them. I only need one that is compact with 2 manuals as I live in a flat.

Any information would be gratefully received.

Thank you

[Casavant Fan]

There are many opinions on this question. One answer is that the best organ is the one that meets your needs and that you can afford.

it would help if you identified your location as product availability varies as do standards.

the Roland C-330 is no longer made and very hard to find. The Johanna’s Studio models are decent. Neither however have AGO pedal boards. If you are a serious classical player, that is of concern.

if you are in the US, Allen, Rodgers, and Johannus are the most likely results for new organs. Viscount is a bit sparse.

as for used offerings, I will leave that to others.

[toodles]

I would be hesitant to recommend the Roland because it is no longer in production and Roland does not have a great record for supporting products that are out of production. I would suspect Johannus is better at that, and Viscount, too.

If you don't have to have AGO pedals, the Allen Historique models seem to offer a lot at prices a little lower than Allen usually charges, and do offer a parallel concave pedalboard option that is close to the AGO playing dimensions at the heel end of the sharps. To my eyes these consoles are rather ugly.

The best value in home organs is always used. Values of new organs drop faster than new cars because of higher dealer margins. The margins are necessary because of lower sales volumes.

[Dutchy]

Dear Butterfingers,

An advise from Holland. Take it for what it is, but because I know the feelings when looking for a home organ and myself has finished my search with full satisfaction, i'm trying to help you.

You dislike Viscount but did you ever hear their Sonus models? I bet you have heard an older model. The Sonus 40 is very compact and has a good sound system on board. I have a Sonus myself and is very reliable en very, very much to individualise to your own taste. They are no way dull (in my ears, its always personal) because you can adjust many parameters per stop and for the whole organ, i.e. windpressure, tuning, stability of tone, character of tone (comparable with the pipemensuur in a PO) en airflow noises in the pipe during attack, release and so on. The reverb is also very modifyable.

Because there are so many parameters, it is possible to let a Sonus sound as the most badle voiced organ ever, but also as your beautiful personal dreamorgan. I speak from own experience. And you dont have to add a computer to the organ, there is a display from where you can do everythang I mentioned above - and more (i.e. there is a build-in sequeser, very useful to hear yourself bach, when practising).

May be your friend has an older model or, if it is a Sonus it os not voiced accarding to your taste, but I advise you really to give the Sonus a chance. Hopefully there is a dealer in your surrounding, i read this forum already fot some time and it seems there are (realtively) not as many organ dealers in the US than in Holland (there are 5 of them within a 100 kilometers from my living place - all good equipped and with plenty of choice).

I would not recommend the C330 as it is no longer in production. If you want a small Johanus, I think the Johannus Studio 150 (may be in the US a 170) would be a nice organ at reliable price. And in the end, its all individual taste. For Sonus 40, look at their website, you van download the manual and look for yourself at the possibilities of the instrument (warning: the soundsamples on their website are bad and doesn't give a good impression, in my opinion.

NO, i am NOT a in any way trying to let you buy a Sonus and I am NOT in any way connected with Viscount - I only remember my own long search for a nice and flexible organ at a reliable price and how glad I am to have found some - a Sonus. Hope you will succeed, GOOD LUCK!

Greetz, PM

[rjsilva]

There’s definitely an issue of personal taste involved as far as the sound of the organ. Many here say Allen makes better quality consoles/hardware than most others, so that may be worth considering.

When you say you don’t like Viscount’s sound, which models? In their current lineup they have two completely different tone generation techniques (samples and physical modelling). And as is the case with any organ manufacturer, their sounds have changed as they develop new generation techniques (my early 90s Viscount sounds nothing like their current Physis line, nor does mine sound like later-90s models).

It’s also worth mentioning that the audio system used by whichever organ (amps, speakers) plays a huge part in the quality of what we hear. I have little doubt that a 70s Rodgers analog setup superbly could sound more pleasing than the latest-and-greatest organ or VPO with a mediocre sound system.

Also, you can sometimes find spectacular deals on decent used organs. It’s worth looking around.

[Melos Antropon]

If you live in an apartment, I would think that "footprint" is of primary concern. Of what is available, two (not necessary the "only two") that have the smallest footprint are the Allen Historique and the Johannus Studio 170. Both are good organs; the Johannus will give you much more "bang for the buck". Though it's hardly a concern nowadays (virtually all of them do) be sure that the instrument has a headphone jack.

Tony

[myorgan]

the Roland C-330 is no longer made and very hard to find. The Johanna’s Studio models are decent. Neither however have AGO pedal boards. If you are a serious classical player, that is of concern.

if you are in the US, Allen, Rodgers, and Johannus are the most likely results for new organs. Viscount is a bit sparse.

as for used offerings, I will leave that to others.

ButterFingers,

Your location is of great importance to the advice given. If in the US, the above is probably the best advice you'll get. However, if you're in Europe or other parts of the world, other advice would be more appropriate. Believe it or not, location is key.

Michael

[MarkS]

Since he mentioned Makin and lives in a "flat" I'm guessing that he is in the UK.

The Global Organ Group dealer (Church Organ World), plus Viscount and Allen list used instruments on their websites.

[Dutchy]

Dear Butterfingers,

If you are in the UK, I would advise you to visit https://viscountorgans.net/product-ranges/sonus/.
Grtz, PM

[myorgan]

Since he mentioned Makin and lives in a "flat" I'm guessing that he is in the UK.

Great pickup, Mark. I forgot a four letter word could make such a difference.O:-) In that case, AndyG would probably come in most helpful, as he has a good handle on organs in the UK--even classical organs.

Michael

[ButterFingers]

Whis is the Best Classical Digita for the Home Organ

Thank you everyone for your kindness and help, I went last month to see a Sonus 60 and no matter how the sound was tweaked it still sounded electronic to me, and did not quite have the oomph I am looking for. Very well made, easy access and a great variety. Also been to see a Viscount Positive just to make sure but that was about the same. Love Positive organs but due to the angles in my flat it would never go through. I love pull stops but I only see them on Positive Organs and the big top of the range organs.

I have been to see a bottom of the line Makin but it was limited, love the sound though, no Meantone or other tuning apart from the standard, or Romantic inclination, and German as well as English and French settings would have been nice. Although, I know I could always add Hauptwerk. It would nice to have the Bach organ sample on as well, as do the C330 but since they are no longer in production and cost £5000 2^nd hand I might not bother with that.

I have played a Rodgers which blew me away and made my head vibrate but they are all just too big to fit through my doorway because of limited access, a real shame that one.

I do like the Johannus 170, but need to find the difference between the 150 and 170 as there is a price difference. However I have just found the Excelsus Preludio 231 made by Johannus they sound out of this world, but do not know the difference between that and the 170, also it is exclusive to Holland…a real shame that. Have a listen and tell me what you think.

Thank you for telling me about the AGO pedal-board, I did not know what they were. Does anyone know if they come as an extra or a standard with models, do they make a difference? Still not sure how it works with the feet compared to other types.

I have only been playing the Organ for a year, my AT30R, very impressive. I am learning Fantasy on a Theme of Thomas Tallis which I adapted for Piano several years ago, which is does not quite work, but sounds lovely on the Organ but now it is time to upgrade to something more professional, and with a larger pedal-board as 1 octave is very frustrating, and is the limited number of sounds.

Playing Piano is a great accolade but I do not enjoy it as much as the Organ, Bach is just far more exciting and I find that I give the Music more of myself when playing the organ, I just need to find the right one.

I have noticed though that most new digital classical organs look like IKEA flat Packs, until you get to the real big ones…HA HA!

Your wisdom is always welcome to my open ear.


Thank you!

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you everyone for your kindness and help, I went last month to see a Sonus 60 and no matter how the sound was tweaked it still sounded electronic to me, and did not quite have the oomph I am looking for. Very well made, easy access and a great variety. Also been to see a Viscount Positive just to make sure but that was about the same. Love Positive organs but due to the angles in my flat it would never go through. I love pull stops but I only see them on Positive Organs and the big top of the range organs.

I have been to see a bottom of the line Makin but it was limited, love the sound though, no Meantone or other tuning apart from the standard, or Romantic inclination, and German as well as English and French settings would have been nice. Although, I know I could always add Hauptwerk. It would nice to have the Bach organ sample on as well, as do the C330 but since they are no longer in production and cost £5000 2^nd hand I might not bother with that.

I have played a Rodgers which blew me away and made my head vibrate but they are all just too big to fit through my doorway because of limited access, a real shame that one.

I do like the Johannus 170, but need to find the difference between the 150 and 170 as there is a price difference. However I have just found the Excelsus Preludio 231 made by Johannus they sound out of this world, but do not know the difference between that and the 170, also it is exclusive to Holland…a real shame that. Have a listen and tell me what you think.

Thank you for telling me about the AGO pedal-board, I did not know what they were. Does anyone know if they come as an extra or a standard with models, do they make a difference? Still not sure how it works with the feet compared to other types.

I have only been playing the Organ for a year, my AT30R, very impressive. I am learning Fantasy on a Theme of Thomas Tallis which I adapted for Piano several years ago, which is does not quite work, but sounds lovely on the Organ but now it is time to upgrade to something more professional, and with a larger pedal-board as 1 octave is very frustrating, and is the limited number of sounds.

Playing Piano is a great accolade but I do not enjoy it as much as the Organ, Bach is just far more exciting and I find that I give the Music more of myself when playing the organ, I just need to find the right one.

I have noticed though that most new digital classical organs look like IKEA flat Packs, until you get to the real big ones…HA HA!

Your wisdom is always welcome to my open ear.


Thank you!

[rjsilva]

What were the audio systems used by the organs you listened to? I find it unexpected that you’d find the Sonus too ‘electronic’ while the Rodgers and Johannus were so amazing. I haven’t heard a Physis organ in person but I have high expectations for them, so I’m wondering if perhaps the audio system on the Sonus was not at the same quality level as the Rodgers and Johannus. The audio system and how it’s setup will have as big or bigger impact on the quality of sound you hear as will the actual tone generation of the organ.

[Dutchy]

I myself have a slightly modified Sonus P235 and in my ears it is no way electronic, but taste can differ, as we all know. Btw, tweaking the sound is possible in VERY many ways and salesmen are not necessarily the best organ demonstrators, as you can read in this subforum when it speaks about poor installations etc. So ma be it wasn't 'tweaked' in the (for you0 right way.

@ rjsilva, the sound system of a Sonus 60 consist of 13 speakers and 9 channals, so I don't think the audio is the weak point.

Butterfingers, the Excelsus is, as far as I know, from Bauer music, a German firm, not Dutch. Not that it makes very much difference if you are not in Europe.

May be the Content Celeste (Dutch made, is the right instrumenmt for you, because it is also a little instument, perfectly suited for a flat. I'm not sure if they sell in the US.

Otherwise it may be a good move to buy a (used) console with MIDI capacity, dimensions that fit in your flat, and set-up a 'Hauptwerk" installation. In stead of Hauptwerk you ca also use Grandorgue, it is completely free. And there are plenty free samplesets too, i.e. from Pjortr Grabowski.

Succes with your search, I would like if you post the final outcome.

[ButterFingers]

Hello, I was able to make a comparison on the Sonus as the Person that owns this, and a Piano he is selling my Pupil went to see put Hauptwerk through the Organ which transformed the sound, the speaker system is incredible in that organ. I guess the sound is not what I am looking for. Another example is when I was choosing an Orla over the Roland AT30 I bought, but didn't.

My Pupil loves the Viscount, and dislikes the Johannus sound so it really is up to the individual.

I tried one of the new range Positive made by Viscount just to be sure. I found that the bass pedals just didn't quite blend with the keyboards on any combination, although that also gave it a more realistic sound, not too polished. But for me personally, with my ear to the speaker I found the decay of the sound still a little bit yesterday digital, although some combinations worked whilst others do not, some jarred and didn't sit well with each other.

Viscount though do make a very well made organ and they really are made to take a lot of hammer and are very reliable, according to my church organist friend Doug, that is the reason he says he has one. However, I have been pricing organs up and in comparison with other makers on equal or similar types of Organ the Viscount does cost more, and the Viscount team are firendly and helpful over here.

The Rodgers which was my original choice, is very far out of my price range, just for their lower end models, these being very expensive in Europe, but very, very impressive. I think but don't quote me but £30K for the Basic model.

I really must try an Allen out as well before my final choice, I have only ever heard one of their Theatre Organs Live, and it was very powerful and the sound is as close to a Theatre Organ as I have ever heard, but I have never played on, or any other Theatre Organ. I will keep you posted as to what I think as I look around.

Thank you

[ButterFingers]

Thank you it is Germany I have just checked, and have asked Johannus themselves to tell me the difference, it might just be German Stops, or sampling. The Recording on Youtube could have been tweaked. I will however look at the Content I did not think of that. I will also be looking opus for a Johannus 250 last or this generation. Trouble with Digital Organs is they all sound immaculate, perfectly even. I do wish that the manufacturers would add an option for wind sound, creaking, slight differentials in the pipes, and their slight variations in tuning to give authentic character, but that is the future. And I will look at GrandOrgue, that might save me a lot of money on the full version of Hauptwerk.

So thank you