Looking for info on a Wurlitzer/Viscount c360 electric organ

[OrbitalDropBear]

I'm fairly new to the organ community and I've been spending lots of time looking for a good home organ to practice on. I can across this Wurlitzer c360, it seems nice but I can't find any info on it at all. We plan on buying it for $500, any info like dimensions, weight, stoplist, etc would be appreciated.
Thanks!

[John_Joe_Jr]

I'm not absolutely certain from these photos but this appears to be equivalent to a Jubilate 235. Here's a link to a very similar one which was recently sold in the UK: https://www.anthonybogdanorgans.co.u...-jubilate-235/ which has some close-up images to give you an idea of the spec.

For a couple of years Viscount organs were sold on the US market under the Baldwin & Wurlitzer names, along with another company (Church Organ Corporation I think they were called).

This will be a mid-90s to early-2000s model. By this point Viscount had upped their game (their early digital instruments from c.1989 onwards in my opinion sounded awfully thin & sterile) & were producing somewhat decent organs. If this is fully working & in good order it would make a nice practice instrument for the home.

I can't say for sure whether 500 USD is a fair price or not. I'm don't know how well-supported Viscount are in the US. Maybe someone here will be able to clarify that. Backup & spares availability will need to be factored in when determining the selling price. I'm making the assumption (correct me if I'm wrong) that you're buying as-is from a private seller? If you can, I would suggest asking an electronic engineer who is familiar with organs to check the instrument over before you make the decision to buy.

[myorgan]

Orbital,

Did you come across this organ in person or online?

If in person, you should look for the builder's plate where the serial number and model number will be located. It will either be on the back near where the power cord comes out of the console, or under the bottom keyboard where your knees would be. Sometimes, it's also placed inside the organ, like on the back rail where the top hinges.

I briefly searched for the organ model you provided, and absolutely NOTHING was found. I also searched Viscount (https://viscountorgans.net/) for the Chorum range (& others, and nothing matches or looks like the Wurlitzer). Having accurate reference material will help us help you greatly.

John Joe,

I'm not sure the two organs are the same, as the one shown by the OP shows stops on either key cheek, whereas the one you reference has bunches of knobs instead of stops. It's not unusual for two organs to appear to be like each other without actually being the same model.

Hope that helps.

Michael

[John_Joe_Jr]

myorgan ah yes, you are correct. I didn't cop those extra stop tabs initially.

[Rody]

It kind of looks like a Baldwin C360 from Church Organ Systems.

[OrbitalDropBear]

To clarify, I came across this organ on FB Marketplace. The only info the seller has provided so far is the name "c360" and the photos. I'm going to check it out in person in a few weeks.
Also, I'm having to pick between this organ, and an Allen TC-3 in very good condition. Both $500, I'm having trouble finding videos of the Allen as well though.
Thanks for all the info too, seems like a nice community.

[Larrytow]

I can't tell you much about one of the organs you mention above, as I have no direct experience with Viscounts. I note however that it seems to have a flat ( or very subtly concave ? ) pedalboard. It also looks to be a parallel, non-radiating one. If you are looking for a practice organ for church music, that is not an ideal board for that use. Most organs you will encounter in churches will have AGO standard pedalboards, and they are both radiating and concave. If you do not already have a competent pedal technique, I think it would be better to find an organ for your home with an AGO board. If you do have a good pedal technique, switching between the two styles is not as big of a deal.

The Allen TC-3 will have an AGO pedalboard, and it is a better built organ console by several magnitudes in all ways. However, the tone generation in it is totally analog, and somewhat limited in voices. It is also old technology that will likely need some repair to make it reasonably functional. If you just want an organ to turn on and Play, an analog Allen is probably not the right choice for you these days anymore. They were great organs in their day, but technology has moved on.

I realize that it sounds like I am telling you that neither one of the two organs you mentioned is the right one for you. That may well be so; only you can decide that, of course. Perhaps the Viscount will work for you, but I would advise against the TC-3 unless you will want to take the time to learn about, and fix whatever issues it might have.

My last thought is that if you just have a bit more patience in your search, you will be able to find a decent practice organ near you ( say a 200 mile radius ) relatively soon. What you really should be looking for is an Allen 2 manual computer organ of pretty much any generation. One of those may need some repair for minor things when you find one, but once you have one playing nicely, it will be very reliable. Those come up for sale around my area pretty regularly ( I'm sure I see one listed at least every month or so ), and generally sell in the $300 - $1,500 range.

And finally, Welcome to the Forum ! As you search, feel free to ask us about various organs you are considering. Also, letting us know what your taste in music is ( church, classical, hymns and service music mostly, gospel, etc. ) will be helpful for us to advise you best.

[rjsilva]

I think it's a two manual version of the C380.

The pedalboard looks like mine (C400) which is AGO. I think the photo just isn't capturing the shape.

I think it'd make a good practise organ if it works. The internal speakers probably don't sound great, but I suspect it will have some audio output capabilities which would allow for external and better speakers.

My C400 is less than 31” deep despite being a 3 manual drawknob console, so I suspect this C360 would be the same or less. You could probably roughly estimate the width and height visually based on the size of other 2-manual organs with a similar shape.

Here is the stoplist from the C400 and C380, so you could probably guess what would be on a smaller version.

[mrdc2000]

The pedalboard in the pictures looks to be 32-note AGO, the concave is easily seen with lower center of the pedalboard compared with level of the console, the radial spread too is seen by looking at pedal black sharps where your toes would touch them.

[Larason2]

I agree with much of what has been said here already. The Viscount is old enough that it may well start having problems, but it may be sufficient for practice, and will probably sound decent. It's hard to tell what kind of pedal geometry it has from pictures, so make sure you see it in person and are happy with it. The TC3 is a very solidly built organ, very repairable, and sounds quite good for the era, but expect to need to put a fair bit of work into it, either yourself or a technician to get it into shape. I agree it's hard to say for sure which one to get or to wait for another. It depends how much work and/or money you're willing to invest and over how long, and how functional and reliable you need it to be.

[Larrytow]

Larason2 , I agree that it is sometimes hard to tell pedalboard geometry from photos - especially when they are rather poorly composed ones. Those sorts of photos are typically taken by people trying to sell an organ, who don't actually know what details a potential buyer would want to see about one.

mrdc2000 , Yes, I do see some concavity in the photo, however I do not see the radiation that a proper AGO spec board has. To me it still looks like a parallel, but concave, pedalboard. The radiation of the back ends of the sharp keys may be giving you the illusion of an actual radiating pedalboard, but just the sharps having that profile does not mean the naturals are doing the same thing. This style of board is sorta common on low end European organs.

While rjsilva has a similar model with an AGO pedalboard, that is a larger model in the same series as this one. I have a feeling that this model is likely one of the lowest spec models from that era of Baldwin / Wurlitzer / Viscount organs.

A search of this Forum about these organs will yield some interesting reading, I would think. I know I have seen these discussed a number of times here.

As everyone suggests, a visit to check out the organ is the best way to tell all sorts of things about it. Buying any organ pretty much always requires two trips - one to check it out, and then one to go fetch it.

[Hiawatha]

This looks an awful lot like one of those Church Organ Systems organs, although those were, obviously Baldwins. Interestingly, this very model stood in the window of the music/ bible store in "River City", Midwestern State where I took my piano lessons. My lesson would get out way after sundown and the closing of the store. As I walked out it sat highlighted by a single spotlight on a raise platform in the window of a building built in the 19th century-- quite magical. You have no idea how much I wanted to jump into that window display and try it out. But this was the 90s and it was the Midwest so I never bothered to ask. Later, one of the five churches in our town of 408 people went against the grain and purchased one instead of a Rodgers like the other 4 churches did. I thought it sounded reasonably good for the early 90's. Unfortunately, while playing the funeral service for my grandfather, the pedal board died. Now that I think about it, I am not sure if it was just a few notes or the whole damn pedal board. There were a few other issues that were typical with that model.

Having owned four (?) Allens, including a TC-3 and two Rodgers I can say that while the Allens were all built to outlast civilization, my newer model Rodgers is an absolute joy on which to practice. I realize that my Allens were from the 60s, 70s, and 80s and incomparable to a late model Rodgers, but if this organ works, I'd think about it seriously. Around here we have a rouge Rodgers repair man who will drive hundreds of miles to fix anything with tubes, transistors, microchips, or lasers. So far he's even been able to fix that Wurlitzer the last time I checked. I'm no organ technician, so listen to what everyone like John has to say, but I wouldn't discount it outright.

[JLWicks341]

I just ran across this thread...
I recently bought and am refurbishing a Baldwin (Viscount) C.340 which I am VERY happy with. When I sent him a query, the Viscount Service Manager was kind enough to send me a complete set of schematics for Models C-305, 320, 340, 345, 350, 355, ***AND C-360***, and I would be happy to copy and send those to you if that would be helpful. My C.340 has 6 separate channels of audio output which I am running through 3 Alesis Nanoverbs into a Sony 5.1 discrete amp (100W each ch) plus a subwoofer and 5 additional speakers. The quality of that audio compared to what you get from the console speakers is like the difference between a Maserati and an old VW. You DO need an excellent subwoofer, however - the low pedal C at 32' is 16Hz. Not sure what the stops are on the 360.
It's not a Ruffatti, but $250 was a great deal less expensive than a Ruffatti, and the 340 fits in my house....please send me an email if you would like me to send you a copy of the schematics. JLEWISFL at IAG daught NET

[mhegener]

I recently acquired a Baldwin/Viscount C.340 organ and I was interested to read how you attached external speakers. I am confused -- there are 6 outputs, however 3 state "main" and 3 state "treble". Did you attach different speaker types to the different outputs?

[JLWicks341]

You have separate outputs for each division (SW, GT, Ped) and then each of those is broken out with a MAIN output including low frequencies and one carrying the higher frequency sound. This lets you put the lower frequency sound for each into speakers with better low frequency response, and higher frequency outputs can go into smaller speakers that lack the robust woofers. For example, the MAIN output for the Pedal Division should DEFINITELY go into a VERY good subwoofer to try to catch that 16Hz sound from the low C on the two 32' stops.
I run the 6 outputs from the C340 directly into 3 Nanoverbs I picked up on eBay. They are two-channel devices. I also have a Nanoverb connected to the Yamaha keyboard I play using the MIDI output. From the Nanoverbs the signal goes into a Sony Receiver/Amp with 5 discrete audio inputs and has 100W per channel outputs. The 6th Nanoverb output, from Pedal MAIN, goes to a subwoofer. The Nanoverb connected to the Yamaha keyboard feeds a separate stereo 100W per channel amp and decent Fisher speakers. MAIN from SW and GT go into a couple of large Wharfdale cabinets with 15" woofers. The upper frequency outputs go into a pair of Sansui speakers with 12" woofers. The upper-frequency Pedal goes into two large bookshelf speakers. I have the various cabinets set up in such a way that SW is aimed in one direction and GT is aimed in another direction, with one Pedal (upper frequency) bookshelf cabinet on each side and the subwoofer in center-back. Using the Nanoverbs allows installing the instrument acoustically into any size room hall, or Cathedral you like, and you can vary it at will.As each of those has output level controls, it makes balancing the Divisions against each other relatively simple, as well as varying the size of the hall AND the 'liveness' of the hall. In other words, you can adjust the reverberation time of the hall AND how 'live' the acoustics are in the hall - separately. The resultant sound from all this is (at least to me) OUTSTANDING.

[mhegener]

Thanks! Very helpful -- sounds like you have an impressive set up. I totally agree with the need for a substantial subwoofer. I can't hear or feel the 32' Contra Bourdon stop with the internal speakers.

By chance, do you (or anyone reading this) have a digital copy of the owner's manual and/or schematics you would be willing to upload or share? I actually acquired this organ for free because the previous owner thought it was broken -- they even had a reputable organ repair company inspect it and were told it needed a new internal speaker amplifier most likely. I took ownership of it knowing this -- turns out they didn't know about the "secret drawer" that contains the volume and tremolo knobs -- the volume was just turned all the way down! Huge win for me!

[JLWicks341]

I have a complete set of block diagrams and schematics for the C300-Series, courtesy of the Viscount service dept. Their service manager was extremely gracious in emailing it to me. I'd be happy to email you a copy.
And check the specs and reviews on any subwoofer before you buy it - 16Hz is WAY below the bottom end of most of them and you may end up having to put an equalizer on the audio line feeding the sub, to crank up the very lowest frequencies. This also means you will have to be careful which equalizer you pick up because it has to have very narrow bands AND also go down that far in frequency, and most do NOT meet those two requirements. A path I already walked..... I ended up with a dbx 1215, which has a band centered on 25Hz .All the audio devices (except the Nanoverbs from eBay) including amps, the equalizer, and all speakers except for the bookshelf speakers and the two Sansui SP150s which I already had (brought those back from my Navy tour on Bahrain in the 70s), I managed to find locally on FB Marketplace. I'm in the Orlando Metro area, so it's a pretty decent market for things like that.

[jt55]

I recently acquired a Baldwin (Viscount) C345. I can't find any documentation online. If you're willing to send what you have my email is [email removed per Forum policy. Please use the Private Message system to contact his user. Michael–Moderator]. Thanks!

[wesleydungan]

I recently replaced some failed capacitors on a Viscount C320 power supply board. The power supply fix was successful, but once it was reinstalled, the organ pedals only work when using the keyboard voices (and not the pedal voices). I suspect that I accidently disrupted one of the other boards when removing / installing the power supply board. I would appreciate it tremendously if you could email me the C320 PDF documents that you have. Thank!