While I'm waiting for the oil to do its thing...

[Me & My M3]

Hello opg,

There are many people on this forum who know a lot more than I do about repairing old Hammond organs, so please take my post with a grain (or a box) of salt. I recently picked up an M3 that had been sitting for years and years. In fact, the last few years of its life had been spent in an old storage shed where it had been exposed to water everytime it rained. I found it in a very rural town located in a sparsly populated area of Tennessee. When I arrived to pick it up, I thougt I was on the set of the movie "Deliverence." Get the picture?

Being successful in protecting my hind-quarters, I got it home safely. I went to work cleaning out the dirt, dust and rat sh*t, then I oiled it. A week later I oiled it again. A week after that, I oiled it again. By the end of the third week I began trying the start/run switches. For the next 3 weeks I would oil it, wait three or four days then try to start it again. By the fifth week the generator was turning, but the run motor would not keep it turning. More oil and more patience. A few days later I would try to start it, then oil it, then wait. Finally, after 7 ot 8 weeks it finally started. However, though the main driveshaft was turning smoothly, the tone wheel bearings were screaming.

I didn't know how the oiling threads were routed, and I did not want to do all of the un-soldering in order to take the top plate with all the capacitors off the generator in order to find out. Thanks to Utube I was able to avoid a lot of work in order to learn what I needed to learn....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Qqmr6IiFLE

The tonewheel generator in the video is a little different than the one on your M3. This one has a self-starting motor, not the start-run motors found on the Hammond M3, but the generator itself is what you're interested in knowing about.

Long story even longer, it's been over two months since I first got the organ home and it now starts, runs and purrs like it was meant to. So, in my opinion, patience is the key here. As you will see in the video, there are a number of oiling threads that run from the oil trough located under the oiling funnels and the oil has to wick a long way to get to the bearings. If you suspect that your M3 has seen little oil over the years, my guess is that it is pretty dry.

I've read many posts where people have been able to brings these old organs back to life with oil and patience.

Just my 2 cents worth. Hope it helps. Congratulations on the M3. Once you get it running, you'll fall in love with it.

Me & My M3's

[toasterDude]

For the sake of any newbies coming across this later, just a quick clarification re: the WD40 wars. It's true, there has been a lot of debate over whether it's ok to use WD40 to free up a stuck generator. But (again, just to be clear) I don't think anyone has recommended putting WD40 in the oiling cups. It can leave a residue that might really foul up the cotton oiling wicks. As Geo says though, WD40 directly on the bearings is fine, provided you follow up with standard Hammond oil. I've done this myself and it works fine, no harm to the TG.

I went to work cleaning out the dirt, dust and rat sh*t, then I oiled it. A week later I oiled it again. A week after that, I oiled it again. By the end of the third week I began trying the start/run switches. For the next 3 weeks I would oil it, wait three or four days then try to start it again. By the fifth week the generator was turning, but the run motor would not keep it turning. More oil and more patience. A few days later I would try to start it, then oil it, then wait. Finally, after 7 ot 8 weeks it finally started. However, though the main driveshaft was turning smoothly, the tone wheel bearings were screaming.

[...]

Long story even longer, it's been over two months since I first got the organ home and it now starts, runs and purrs like it was meant to. So, in my opinion, patience is the key here.

This ought to be required reading for every new Hammond owner! Great story. And great work saving another M3!

cheers,
td

[eticket]

Just throwing in my concurrence.. I had a similar experience (as that of Me and My M3) with a C3 that wouldn't start.. start motor wouldn't engage at first, then the tonewheels wouldn't stay running.

For me the process took about 3 weeks. What finally got the tonewheels to stop squealing for good (after all the oiling, WD-40 and long walks on the beach).. was heating up the affected area with a blow dryer. Apparently this lowered the viscosity of the oil and/or WD-40 *just* enough - or perhaps melted away some of the "gum".. to lubricate the offending wheels once again.

It was a great feeling to rescue this beautiful organ via something as simple as good advice from this forum and a modest amount of patience.

Randy

[Guest]

I was glad that I did the oiling before Christmas break, as I was forced to wait a good week and a half without touching it. Today, I started spinning the TWG manually and things were definitely loosened up. Be the impatient maniac that I am, I fired up the start motor and it now turns on its own! Of course, it was a very slow turn - nowhere near the speed to pass off to the run motor - but this is huge progress!

I'm sure I should lay off the start motor for now to avoid any damage, but is it still okay to manually turn the TWG every once in a while? It really seemed to help. Essentially, I'd like to get the speed up to the one in the video I posted earlier in this thread before I check out the run motor.

Thanks for all your advice so far! And no WD-40 needed yet! ;-)

[johnny b3]

Turning the tone generator, I think, does not speed up lubrication. If there is oil arriving at the bushings that hasn't spread out around the moving part, it will surely do so the moment you fire up the generator. It's definitely OK and it feels oh-so-right. Generally the most you gain from it is realizing its progress. When mine was able to move with the start motor I would fire it up for about 10-15 seconds daily...but again, if the oil hasn't reached the bushings or lube sponges turning the generator won't speed that up.

[Me & My M3]

opg,

Glad to hear that you're making progress with the M3. That should be incentive enough to not rush things along. In other words, your patience is paying off. I liked etickets suggestion of using a blowdryer to warm up the oil and alter the viscosity in order to help move things along. Based on years of working on other mechanical motors with shafts/bearings/gears which required oil, my thoughts are that whatever old oil was in the lubricating threads and bearings when you got the organ has 'gummed up' so to speak. It will take a little time for the new oil to work its magic.

But you're making progress. What you describe is exactly how mine responded, it turned slowly at first, then a little faster, and then even faster until eventually the run motor was able take over. Try it every couple of days. While the start motor is spinning the main shaft & tonewheels heat is being generated from the friction which is helping to break down the old oil and allowing the new oil to get down the threads to the bearings. Give it time. Your effort, and patience, will be rewarded ten-fold.

In the meanwhile go listen to some Billy Preston CD's and say to yourself... "Soon, I'm going to be able to do that!"

Me & My M3's

[Guest]

It now appears that both motors are working well, but there is no sound. Today, I successfully got the start motor to "hand off" to the run motor, and the TWG kept spinning. There is no squealing. All of the amp tubes are original and appear to be functioning. The hardest tube to verify is of course the 5U4, but it's not cloudy.

So, what's a good next step regarding the sound, being that the run motor now functions?

[Me & My M3]

Glad to hear the TWG is humming along. From personal experience I know how good it feels to finally let go of the run motor switch and see everything still spinning.

With regard to your question, all I can suggest is to check the obvious first such as...

Are all the drawbars pulled out?
Are the wires from the amp to the speaker connected?
Any obvious broken or disconnected wires?
Do you see any chewed up wires from where mice, squirels, chipmonks, alligators or buffalo had been living inside the organ?
Are the tube sockets and pin connections clean? I've discoverd that just by wiggling the tubes in their sockets you can produce a static or crackling sound from the speaker.

Beyond the obvious, I can't offer much help. I'm still in the learning stage. One of the more experienced members will have to take over from here.

Just don't give up yet. I'm convinced that very few Hammonds can't be revived with a little effort and a lot of patience.

Good luck,

Me & My M3's

[indianajo]

One thing obvious to the experienced and not to the new, is that one of the black keys on the left has to be pushed down for each manual to make sound. Also the swell pedal should be pushed in ( and out, exercised).
If that is done, try flipping them all several times to knock the dust off the contacts. Failing that, get a can of contact cleaner. With the power off, with a fan blowing on the organ, remove any connectors and spray them with contact cleaner, then reseat them. Contact cleaner is gasoline in a spray can, so no open flame, smoking, pilot lights, electricity turned on or off within 30' while using it. The optical or resistor pickup in the swell pedal could also need a cleaning. If there is a light bulb in the swell pedal, make sure it works with the power on. The drawbars could use a light cleaning with spray, although to be thorough one has to disassemble them on most models.

[Guest]

After noticing the absence of buffalo droppings, I let the organ run for about 5 minutes or so. The 5U4 rectifier tube had always been hard for me to tell if it was glowing, but after I shut off the organ, all the tubes were warm except the 5U4. Ice cold. There's a MITA-certified tech here in Tucson who has some in stock. I'm going to see if I can get one today or tomorrow. I'll make sure to bring the old one in; she may want to test it just in case. I've never worked with tubes before.

[indianajo]

tubesandmore.com is also in arizona, also operate as antique radio supply. They have a lot of new parts for old things at reasonable prices. Before lifting the chassis & touching any metal, read diyaudio.com amplifiers, tube forum, top sticky threads: tube learning for newbies, and rules for working with high voltage. Your electrolytic power supply capacitor could be shorted, as could any of the other 40+ year old electrolytics. (not too many in this early organ).

[ppeterso2]

I would tell you to check the speaker connection and make sure no one spliced a Leslie kit in and just snatched it out, but w/ that cold tube... I've killed a 5U4G by trying to pull it out by the glass part (it separated from the loctile base part. If everything seems tight with the tube--have it tested. Good luck--and you'll be up before you know it.

[Guest]

SUCCESS!!! It's alive and awesome! I'll of course need to replace the power cord and do a little more dusting, but it's so nice to have that sound in the house again!

Thanks everyone, for your great advice. I'm sure I'll need more further down the road!

[Me & My M3]

opg,

Congratulations! Enjoy! Patience truly does pay off.

One thing obvious to the experienced and not to the new, is that one of the black keys on the left has to be pushed down for each manual to make sound.

Indianajo,

It's an M3. No present keys.

Me & My M3's

[Fenrirlupus]

Oil of Olay make your tonewheels wrinkle free!

Aren't the wrinkles the only thing that makes them functional?