Your favorite overdrive effect for Hammond?

[ShadyJoe]

Ya know. I've been listening to Jon Lord and Keith Emerson lately, and it seems that the distortion is achieved by playing really F'ing loud.

John Lord achieved his sound by playing through a Marshall stack. While he may have played loud, equipment was a huge influence. Certainly playing a Hammond through a Leslie at full blast may give you distortion, you don't have to make your ears bleed.

[jdoc]

Lord was no stranger to the Leslie speaker, even in more recent videos

[wagonman76]

I can wholeheartedly reccomend a Vox Big Ben overdrive, and I use this pedal on the effects loop of both my organs, T500 and E100. It uses an actual valve for the overdrive, and most important it is really transparent. With gain set low, there is almost no loss of tone. When you increase gain you get something that sounds like an overdriven 147. The important thing is that both low end and high end passes through at all levels of drive. This is rarely the case with overdrive pedals, as they tend to emphasise mid-range. The Vox Big Ben pedal can be had cheap. I think it never achieved the succes that it was meant to as a guitar pedal, but it rules for organ! Changing the valve also makes a lot of difference on this pedal, so maybe it is best considered an overdrivable valve pre-amp. I tried it with a Tungsram I have, and it immediately sounded dirtier.

/Frank

I listened to your recordings and they sound great! I like your clean sounds and the sound of that pedal.

I want to eventually try the Mig-T I made for my T422.

I would also like to make an effects loop and try my Tubeworks Blue Tube pedal. It uses a real tube to create a light overdrive, and besides volume and drive it has a 3 band EQ. It is made for bass (and would probably work well for organ too). It has a GE tube in it. I tried a Sovtek tube once and it sounded harsh so I switched back to the GE tube.

Tubeworks also made one called the Real Tube, with a lot harder drive that was made for guitar.

[dvalleyjim]

"you don't have to make your ears bleed"

True, After a life time of rock I don't need to lose anymore of my hearing!

[M3me]

I've said it before, and I'll continue to say it until something better hits my ears ....

Line 6 Spider.

I have the 30 watt version. I use the Marshall model (not because I'm Marshall biased, it just sounds better with that setting is all). There is nothing that I've ever tried that sounds like one of these things. And I've tried a LOT of stuff. It works with either my M3 or the A102. I also use the Spider's amp to drive my ampless Leslie ... this is a wonderous thing. You can have all of the Emersonian/Lordolean sounds you could ever wish for without going full-on Hiwatt/Leslie like Emerson did or using the Marshall like Lord did.

Lord didn't use a "Marshall stack" exclusively, he also used a Marshall Bluesbreaker which has a completely different amplifier in it than a "stack" which typically used a "plexi" amplifier. The amp in a Bluesbreaker is a JTM45 and produces a different sound than a Plexi ... jsyk Lord used many combinations over the years and eras.

This is the Bluesbreaker in this video (JTM45 amplifier in a 2x12 openback combo) ... you instantly recognize the sound from the Deep Purple "mk2" era.

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Emerson used several Hiwatt powered Leslie rotators, combined with Hiwatt powered non-rotary cabs to increase click and top end .. all used at once. He'd switch various cabs/amp combinations in-and-out depending on what he was trying to achieve in realtime. I've created as ~small~ a copy of that as possible with my own rig (see sig). The 20 watt Marshall turned up to MAX sounds friggin amazingly close when used with just the Leslie (and being only 20 watts it's actually tolerable without drawing blood). I keep the head on top of the organ so I have instant control over the sounds. I link the two channels together and use the two volumes as a ~mixer~ of sorts .. I can easily dial in cleans, floor-rattling bottom, Emersonian Tarkus-era drive (1972 to 1974 when he was still developing the live Tarkus-suite sound) .... that amp has much more midrange and sounds quite "Leslie-esque" at non-insane drive levels. It never gets into Lordville with that amp though .... I use the JTM for that. I have the Leslie, and the 2x12 closedback cab, and the two Marshall amplifiers all of which run through a simple switching matrix so I can pick and select which amp/speaker combo I want instantly. But for live work or just getting nuts in the studio I can even run both amps at once .. one for the rotator and one for the 2x12 to achieve bi-cabbed Emersonian bliss.

But for the "single box solution" (and a LOT less cash than my DIY rig) the Line 6 Spider is a great answer ($125 or so on ebay). Or, if you want to just have a "distortion pedal" type setup, my guess is that picking up a used Line 6 POD for $75 bux on ebay would yield ~like~ results. These modelling toys have everything "in the box" ... the amplifier model for the proper distortion, a decent phaser for rotating simulations, reverbs, delays, and a bunch of other stuff in there. The amp models have the three-way EQs so you can dial in the distortion to NOT sound all "stompbox-crappy".

I'm tellin' ya .... get a Line 6 Spider combo amp ... the 30 watt is PLENTY loud enough for home/studio use. Get the 2x12 75 watt (or go even bigger if you must) for live work. Major league perfect distortion tones, and no danger of smoking your Leslie. If you're adventurous you can use the Spider's amplifier to drive the Leslie rotators (not using the stock Leslie amp).

And the Spider/Spinet combo is like the spinet guy's match made in proverbial heavens. Screamage on the cheap!

I have spoken.

:)

[Wes]

If you have an L-100, try bypassing the vibrato amplifier. All you need is a female-female RCA plug, connect black to brown. You wind up with a mild and pleasant distortion that changes in timbre with the expression pedal. You also get a serious gain boost. Basically, your "volume soft" tab becomes "volume normal" and volume normal means "LOUD".

I just wired this permanently into my organ yesterday, switched from the front panel. 100% spare parts from around the garage and a couple of hours of assembly.

[M3me]

If you have an L-100, try bypassing the vibrato amplifier. All you need is a female-female RCA plug, connect black to brown. You wind up with a mild and pleasant distortion that changes in timbre with the expression pedal. You also get a serious gain boost. Basically, your "volume soft" tab becomes "volume normal" and volume normal means "LOUD".

I just wired this permanently into my organ yesterday, switched from the front panel. 100% spare parts from around the garage and a couple of hours of assembly.

This modification is for using the internal amp and internal speaker, right? (Just so I am clear...)

:)

[Wes]

Internal amp, yes, but you can run the resultant output to a Leslie just fine, in fact, that's preferred. I had that working in my living room a few weeks ago and it sounded GREAT. It actually sounded better than it currently does, the organ is in my shop right now, running off the internal speakers only.

Basically, AFAICT the vibrato amp attenuates the output by something in the neighbourhood of 6 to 12 db (while potentially introducing noise); getting rid of that lets you send a much hotter signal to the power amp. I'm not sure if I'm overdriving the EL84s or the 12AX7s, but either way, you can sure tell it's tube amp overdrive.

Here, I made you a quick video so you can get an idea. Will try to make a better one once the organ is back in the living room. It's kinda hard to play when the manuals are 9" away from the wall, and the lack of both bass and high-end in the L100 internal speakers sucks a bit of the life out of the overdrive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Eg-s-04DU

Listen for the loud click, that's me switching the distortion on. I'm also playing with the brightness tab and expression pedal.

[Wes]

BTW, this came up in related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=Pc4lAFgmsUc

That's gietke from this forum. I plan to do the Kon Zener mod once I have my organ 100% sorted. The vibrato bypass is a completely-reversible no-brainer.

[Brendon Wright]

the 30 watt is PLENTY

Hey Brine!
Nice ta hear your 'thusiastic tones again.

I'm on a little sidetrack here in relation to your "low wattage" comment, I'm foraying away from hammonds for a moment, apologies....

My git-tar rig is 150W and I never ever get to turn it up til the mos-fets start to sound nice and smooth. ...Unless I'm playing in a pub which hasn't happened for years.
Makes me wonder why we EVER go to high wattage instrument amps unless we're planning on having it really clean really loud.... when if we were all filthy rich we could have a personal sound engineer to mic us up and shove us thru the P.A... of course providing us with a nice foldback wedge so we can hear ourselves above the damned Hammond player (wait! that's me....).

For my wife who's running a ladies camp in a cupla months we were given a 10W solid state VOX practise amp so she could run the synth thru it. We test drove it on the rhodes rather than the synth which, unfortunately wins out on the "fitting in the back of a small car" award. The little vox only had a treble and bass control to change the colour, but it was so much easier to get right than my larger guitar rig which has four tone knobs with push/pull and a huge range of change on each knob. Even solid state, the Vox sounded perfect for the rhodes!

Not only that, I found this little ten watt amp was perfect for my strat which always used to sound to sterile and harsh. Now it's over 20 years old and well battered, I guess it's mellowed and gained some sustain which it never had. However, thru the little amp the guitar actually sounds fat (remember how I always puzzled over Blackmore's fat strat?). The onboard drive is almost great with a southern blues growl, and these days I run my guitar thru a cheap tube mic preamp (modded) which gives the amount of warmth and weight to make the sound perfect.

Alas, I fear this little amp might only be any good in the studio. I can't see it being possible to keep the thing anywhere near clean when there's another instrument
cranking....

Back to Hammonds and playing loud, the thing I keep running into on my present budget:
Onstage, the downside of running a large wattage amp thru the leslie is the expense of getting high wattage speakers!!

[jdoc]

I have a Line 6 2x12" Flextone.........only suited to overdrive, haven't created too many gentle patches.....one harsh amp modelling contraption

[Huboe]

the "fitting in the back of a small car" award.

Does this put me in the running for this prestigious award? :P ( I did fit an L100 into an '05 Corolla after all) .................................................. .................................................. ..

[M3me]

Internal amp, yes, but you can run the resultant output to a Leslie just fine, in fact, that's preferred. I had that working in my living room a few weeks ago and it sounded GREAT. It actually sounded better than it currently does, the organ is in my shop right now, running off the internal speakers only.

Basically, AFAICT the vibrato amp attenuates the output by something in the neighbourhood of 6 to 12 db (while potentially introducing noise); getting rid of that lets you send a much hotter signal to the power amp. I'm not sure if I'm overdriving the EL84s or the 12AX7s, but either way, you can sure tell it's tube amp overdrive.

Here, I made you a quick video so you can get an idea. Will try to make a better one once the organ is back in the living room. It's kinda hard to play when the manuals are 9" away from the wall, and the lack of both bass and high-end in the L100 internal speakers sucks a bit of the life out of the overdrive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Eg-s-04DU

Listen for the loud click, that's me switching the distortion on. I'm also playing with the brightness tab and expression pedal.

Ok, that's pretty nice. I see what you mean about the crowded space, your wrist angle had to suck! My wrists hurt just watching you!

The thing about Hammonds and distortion .... there are a hundred "right" ways to get it done. :)

[M3me]

BTW, this came up in related videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&fe...&v=Pc4lAFgmsUc

That's gietke from this forum. I plan to do the Kon Zener mod once I have my organ 100% sorted. The vibrato bypass is a completely-reversible no-brainer.

Arthur Brown lives! Kept waiting for him to bust out with "Fire".

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Well done, two little electronic components. However I gotta say I prefer the Marshall 20 watt ... I really need to get up the nerve and do you folks a demo.

Still, though ... $5 or so bux worth of parts gets a bit of grindage ... cool!

[M3me]

Hey Brine!
Nice ta hear your 'thusiastic tones again.....

Good to see you here as well ... didn't seem like you were around for a couple/few days there!

I've been neck-deep in doing that AO-28 cap replacement thread since Thursday. Got it done ... and I'm so glad the A102 is back online again!!! The M3 just wasn't cuttin' it.

My wife uses a low wattage Fender practice amp with the Rhodes too ... sounds amazingly good! We just plug in a 2x8 Traynor monitor wedge when she needs more volume. Or if she needs even more volume, a detuned 2x12 open back. For those that aren't familiar with detuning a speaker cab ... it's a fancy word for removing half the speakers. In a 2x12 you remove on of the speakers to give the cab a TON more range and sound quality. There are a bunch of audio-engineering reasons for this, but for the most part what you're doing in creating a front port that is the same size as the remaining speaker. It increases bottom, top, and has a sortof natural reverb-effect going on.

A commonly done mod for guitar players "in the know" is to use a 4x12 half stack cab with only two speakers in it. The sound is far better than it is with all 4 speakers. You lose very little overall volume as well. (The cab gets a good deal lighter in weight, and get's a lot cheaper to put speakers in as well! A LOT cheaper!). Gotta pay attention to wiriing all up, watch that total impedance. This mod also makes the sound less focused. I've heard it described as sounding like you're actually immersed in the sound, rather than having it shot "at" you from a single source. Kinda like what a Leslie does (the immersion thing, I mean).

:)