Chopping work in Greater New York Area/Long Island

[ForkintheRhodes]

Hello Organ Forum!

So, I recently acquired from the church I work at a true relic- a late 1940s CV (gotta check the serial number to really pinpoint the year). For what it's worth, it needs some work internally, some things need to be replaced, but it's not a total disaster. However, for years now I've been looking for an older model Hammond to customize and chop for gigging. My father, who has plenty electrical/technical know-how, and myself who's been learning something new about the guts of the Hammond every day have toyed with the idea of potentially undertaking a father/son chop project. However, despite pop's knowledge and my vision as a player, neither of us have taken on serious repairs to any of my keyboards beyond the cosmetic and the occasional key bushing replacements on my Italian Continental. Needless to say, this task is daunting. I'm based on Long Island, and the most prominent organ guy out by me is Scott Russ in Merrick. I stopped in his shop to drop my 860 Leslie off for service, and I casually brought up the idea of chopping this CV. Perhaps it's because he's mainly dealing the digital Hammonds (I played an SK2 in there and while I was impressed, it didn't convert me from being a vintage purist haha!) but he strongly pushed for dropping the whole idea and just getting a digital. I get it, he's a salesman and needs to unload that stock. So it seemed like if this organ was to get chopped, it wouldn't be by him. So, New York based Hammond players, I was wondering if either in the city or on Long Island if there's anybody who has either had experience chopping or actively does so. I'm looking for either people who would do the job, or at least point my dad and I in the right direction with this project. I would also be willing to perhaps skip across the sound to Connecticut if there's anybody of merit, and even to New Jersey if it's not too far out. Vintage Vibe is about 2 hours from me, but I don't know if they work on Hammonds- they seem to be mainly a Rhodes/Wurli shop.

I appreciate any and all help/advice y'all can give. This is certainly a labor of love and I'd really like my dream chop to come to life in one way or another!

Thanks!

Dylan

[Wes]

The first question you must answer is: what problem do you propose to solve with chopping the organ?

If you have a tour bus and it won't fit in the luggage compartments, that's a good reason.

Wes

[mykstor]

Hi Dylan.. as a newbie here.. if you have a minute, could you explain to me exactly what "chopping" a classic Hammond means?
I, too, would love to find a vintage full two-manual with tonewheels, not digital... and, like others, my dream would be to have it all pristine in a B-3 cabinet.. Is this what you mean by "chopped"? Transferred from a different cabinet? Or is physically cut back even more or different than that?
Just curious.. in case you have a minute to explain it or else tell me where to look to see such a beast...

Thanks, Mike in Arizona.. sorry I'm obviously not going to be able to answer your question at hand from way out here...

[ArthurCambronne]

a true relic- a late 1940s CV (gotta check the serial number to really pinpoint the year). For what it's worth, it needs some work internally, some things need to be replaced, but it's not a total disaster.

This is an antique organ, and they will never be made again. You noted that it is not a disaster. Don't chop it. If the cabinet were rotted, I would have different opinion.

I'm not a Hammond guy, but I just don't think they should be chopped. Once you chop it, there is one less heritage organ in the world.

Also, from what I read here on the Forum, choppping doesn't really make them any easier to gig.

If you want a chopped Hammond, then just hold out for a bit and buy one that has already been chopped. They come up on eBay and craigslist pretty regularly.

If you just want to a project with your dad, a full restoration to original with new caps, etc. would be a good project, and you find much more support for it.

If you really want a chopped hammond, find one that is a total disaster, and then you would be saving it, not destroying it.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers,

Cam

[JoeyB3]

With all due respect to all the members here offering an opinion (as everyone here is entitled to one)....

The guy wants to chop an organ. So what? Whether or not the cabinet is a disaster or not, whether he needs to shave 35 lbs off the total weight of the organ (cause that's all it's really gonna be), whether he has no desire to ever play with pedals.... all irrelevant. He want's to chop it. Yeah - they don't make em anymore, and yeah...once one is gone it's gone. But that's his decision, not ours. So that's MY opinion on that....

Regarding the project - Dylan - you're on Long Island...so am I. I did a complete restoration on a B3 chop last year (I acquired it already chopped). I have also restored another B3, an A-100, a C3, and am currently working on a Concert Model E. If you need help or have questions - feel free to ask and I'll help in any way I can.

As far as local techs are concerned....you should contact Jeremy Price if you are not looking to do it yourself.
http://jporganservice.com/index.html
He's located in Brooklyn, apprenticed under master tech Bob Schleicher in California, and knows his stuff. I referred him to another forum member a couple of months ago and the member couldn't connect with him....but the couple of times I reached out to him he always available. Then there is always Goff Professional in Connecticut...but I think for your particular project you'd be paying more for the name of the company doing the project than the project itself.

If you wanna chat, shoot me a PM and I would be glad to have a conversation and help you towards achieving what YOU feel is best for you.

Regards,
Joey

[ArthurCambronne]

Yeah, well it was only my opinion. But, I would recommend modding a classic jaguar e-type either, so perhaps I am just a sentimentalist.

To each his own.

[mykstor]

Well, although I didn't come out with it, my personal feelings are in line with Arthur's. I am also not a Hammond freak, per se, and in spite of this, I realize that this particular organ, being a vintage one with semi-mechanical, clockwork sound generation using a very unique and brand new patented design at the time it was made is probably quite a collector's piece and deserves to be respectfully restored.

Having said that, I know that many consider older (or almost all) electronic organs to be white elephants to be had for a dime a dozen. And indeed many of them still around are rather useless old clunkers that never were great shakes to begin with, but I think most would agree that a classic era vacuum tube Hammond with tonewheel-generated sound is a beast of quite a different color and in a category by itself... and has special value. I don't know this particular cabinet model, however. Whether it is a particularly desirable one or not is not for me to guess, but others here might tell you more exactly.. and also say whether or not the "guts" of the thing is perhaps identical.. which I might suspect it is, being pre-1950's... to the guts of those that were installed in more sought-after consoles.. and that it might be worth the effort to ... well you get my point.. for what it's worth. Let's just say that some might call chopping this thing sacrilege;-)

But what's more: I think that a B-3, in particular, on stage is like having a classic Mercedes to show off. Something that is "always in good taste."
And IMHO this will only become more the case as we're moving into a time of more and more nostalgia and appreciation for just this kind of beautiful, exemplary blast from the past.
As a musician.. please try to love it as you might appreciate not doing some kind of a chop job a classic Fender guitar.
Just my opinion at age 66.. so what do I know anymore... perhaps I'm way off track here...;-)

..and in the end, of course, it really doesn't matter, does it? I only meant it as consideration, in case you hadn't. That's all. I'm not going to hate anyone for what they decide to do knowingly. The only sad thing is when we do irreversible things in life without all the facts at hand first, right, Dylan?

[JoeyB3]

Well, although I didn't come out with it, my personal feelings are in line with Arthur's.

FWIW - my feelings are in line with Arthur's as well!! I have no desire to chop any Hammonds...the one I have was already chopped when I got it. But I loved doing the resto on it nonetheless and she is in FAR better shape than she was before I rescued her :-)

However - in trying to stay the course of the OP's pointed questions...he wasn't asking our opinions on whether or not to chop. It was simply to ask for help and direction in doing the chopping. To each his own.

[David Anderson]

Earlier this year, someone had me un-chop a C3 back into its original case, which he had saved. There was a time (before decent digital clones) when it made some sense to chop Hammonds. Nowadays, I just don't see the point.

My first Hammond was a chop. It was still VERY heavy. If you think chopping a Hammond will magically make it light and easy to move . . . it doesn't. I ultimately un-chopped mine into an A100 case.

Also, organs in nice-looking original cases have much better WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). That was part of the reason for the C3 un-chopping above. His wife wasn't going to have an ugly black plywood case in her living room, but she was OK with a nice walnut cabinet.

[picothinker]

Mykstor, a chop is a general term for removing wooden parts from a Hammond to reduce size, but not really weight. You have to do some re-wiring, as well as rig up a mechanism for the swell pedal linkage. As Joey mentioned, you can reduce the weight of a 400-ish pound console by 35 pounds. I have never owned one, but have helped move a few. It saves some space, but is still clumsy to move.

Dylan, tell about your gigging plans? If you are in a band with a bass player, you may not want pedals altogether. A chop with pedals is a whole lot more to get done. What kind of vehicle do you have to move it? A chop will save some space, but the heavy parts will still be there.

Regardless of chop/no chop, the most important thing is to make sure the preamp is working properly. 40's Hammonds exist that will function with the original amp, but everything is way out of spec, and it cannot sound like it should without an overhaul. Neglected antique amps can be a fire hazard. An amp overhaul is not hard nor expensive, soldering required. It may have been refreshed, some pics can tell.

A CV makes no sound by itself. What kind of music will you be playing? If rock/blues you'll wish you had a Leslie (preferred), or a Hammond tone cabinet. These have their own set of antique amps to rebuild. You can fairly easily add a line out, and play it through another amp or PA, and use an Leslie simulation pedal/effect.

I'm asking a lot of questions, I know. My only hard advice is don't chop (or especially pay someone to) until you can get the base organ in proper working condition. You are going to have to do that, either way. Good luck!

[ptsmith]

Yeah, well it was only my opinion. But, I would recommend modding a classic jaguar e-type either, so perhaps I am just a sentimentalist.

To each his own.

Yes, but buyers would be lined up around the block to buy an e-type. That's not the case with a CV.

I'm with Joey on this. Everyone here makes valid points, but I think it's a matter of demand. Other than the B3, and to a lessor degree C3's and A100's, there are way more vintage Hammonds than there are people that want them. So what does it really matter what the OP does to his CV? Chopping it is better than hauling it to the dump.

[enor]

As Joey mentioned, you can reduce the weight of a 400-ish pound console by 35 pounds. I have never owned one, but have helped move a few. It saves some space, but is still clumsy to move.

And here we go again with the myth of the "400 pounds" which is about a hundred too many. The CV I had for a while weighed in at 140 kgs unchopped (308 lbs).

That aside though - chopping really does no good. If anything, it actually makes moving the organ more difficult, in most cases (steep and/or narrow staircases excluded). But in any other situation, keeping the organ stock and putting it on dollies is BY FAR the easiest way to move it around. With a stock organ on dollies, you only need one person to move it most of the time (except for that last lift onto the stage, if such a lift is involved). It easily rolls around without effort, and loading it onto a trailer or into a van is easy - you can either use ramps or just lift one end at a time, since the handles are at perfect height for lifting heavy stuff, and the ergonomics of the grip is very good.

A chop sits "directly on the ground" all the time. As such, you have to manage it at knee-level height and it is just too heavy for one person to do so - you have to bring a friend even for the slightest move. And when you both lift it, you have to bend much farther down making the lift much much tougher on your back. Then when you get to the stage, you have to assemble some sort of really sturdy stand, and call on your friend again to lift the Hammond onto it. Then you often have to run a great number of wires or other connections between parts. Swell pedals, bass pedals etc.

A stock Hammond - you load it, transport it, roll it into the venue on your own. You might need additional help onto the stage, but once it's on there you only need to make the connection to the speaker and it's ready to go. No assembly, no wiring, nothing. Plus it looks a million times better on stage.

End of rant. Point? Think this through, don't chop it until you've tried living with it as-is. I have tried both variants - chop and stock - and would never ever go back to a chop, it's just a pain.

[JoeyB3]

- chopping really does no good. If anything, it actually makes moving the organ more difficult, in most cases (steep and/or narrow staircases excluded).

I get a kick out of these "blanket, black and white" statements. Try explaining this to a guy (like me) who moves around a chopped B3 in a Jeep Liberty. No need for pedals, and have other keys and a monitor amp to transport as well. All fit fine....because the organ is chopped.

It all depends on what you want and what you need....and all that is needed to solve this equation is common sense.

I will agree with Magnus on one thing however...ain't no way my full size B3 is 400 lbs! Not even close....

[mykstor]

picothinker, thanks for the explanation;-)

- - - Updated - - -

Other than the B3, and to a lessor degree C3's and A100's, there are way more vintage Hammonds than there are people that want them.

I live in Arizona. If anybody has one of said vintage Hammonds just lying around, I want it;-)

[enor]

I get a kick out of these "blanket, black and white" statements. Try explaining this to a guy (like me) who moves around a chopped B3 in a Jeep Liberty. No need for pedals, and have other keys and a monitor amp to transport as well. All fit fine....because the organ is chopped.

It all depends on what you want and what you need....

It absolutely does. I need to bring a Leslie as well as the organ, so I need something bigger than a station wagon or SUV anyways.

- - - Updated - - -

I get a kick out of these "blanket, black and white" statements. Try explaining this to a guy (like me) who moves around a chopped B3 in a Jeep Liberty. No need for pedals, and have other keys and a monitor amp to transport as well. All fit fine....because the organ is chopped.

It all depends on what you want and what you need....

It absolutely does. I need to bring a Leslie as well as the organ, so I need something bigger than a station wagon or SUV anyways.